Speaker 1: On the record is brought to you by Steve and Adele do follow Speaker 2: San Antonio is a fast growing fast moving community with something new happening every day.

And that's why each week we go on the record with the Newsmakers who are driving this change.

Then we gather at the reporters round table to talk about the latest news stories with the journalists behind those stories.

Join us now as we go on.

Speaker 1: Hi everybody.

And thank you for joining us for this edition of on the record that I'm Randy Beamer.

And this past week here in San Antonio, one of the biggest stories was that after a year, the city of San Antonio and the San Antonio police officers association and the police union reached a new contract agreement.

Now the deal isn't actually signed yet at the city council and the officers have to, okay, but it looks like it's going to happen and joining us to explain it.

And what it means is Danny Diaz, president of the San Antonio police officers association.

Thank you very much for coming in.

Thank you for having me.

This was a whole different kind of negotiation and the contract.

The last time when I was acrimonious, it was more personal.

Why, why was it different this time?

Speaker 2: Well, it was a change, right?

You didn't have Cheryl and Cheryl Sculley or Mike Haley here talking about a contract.

You had Eric Walsh and Danny Diaz talking about that and our bargaining teams, Speaker 1: A little different personalities and a different time.

So it was after George Floyd, after an attempt to repeal collective bargaining rights for police officers here.

Did that, did that make you change your tone or Speaker 2: No, I, I had an idea coming into this, into my election that there needed to be a change.

Right?

We could see what was going on across the country and it wasn't time to fight.

It was time to talk.

And if we can have a dialogue and that communication, you know, people tend to understand things differently and they get to see the other side because when you're fighting people don't talk right.

And they're just going at each other.

So my idea was, and I explained it to our city manager, Eric Walsh and the mayor, and everyone else that would listen is I'm not coming as an adversary.

I'm coming to work.

And, and with that, understand that like in any business, we will agree to disagree on some things.

But the whole idea is to do what's right by the citizens to do what's right by the city and by my members, Speaker 1: What we're looking at, what the contract means for officers is higher pay stability in terms of health care, different options.

I understand if an officer wants no premiums, he can choose that for himself, correct.

And pay a higher deductibles.

Correct.

And then if he wants coverage for his family, he'll pay higher premiums.

Right?

Speaker 2: That's correct.

So everyone's in a different, different place with their family members, Speaker 1: But the biggest difference and the biggest sticking point was took a year or months longer was because of the disciplinary policy.

Correct.

And that was a sticking point for you.

And then what it, tell us what this means.

As I understand it in 140 page agreement, that there is a committee that's going to review what happened or the reports that they get from internal affairs.

And then they suggest discipline to the police chief Speaker 2: So that that's already in place and has been for awhile.

So you have a committee of officers and then you have a committee of civilians and they hear the process.

That process, once they make their decision and recommendation, they hand that over to the chief and the chief can either take their recommendation or he can come up with his own idea of what, what he thinks the discipline should be that's been in place.

And that hasn't changed.

What has changed is, is, is some of the things that activists were talking about, we sat back and we listened.

There was rhetoric going out and misinformation about a 48 hour rule.

What that is is internal affairs.

If there was a complaint on an officer, they would call the officer in and give him 48 hours to appear.

But what was being told to the community was that that was 48 hours for police officers to concoct their story.

And then they can go there and right.

And that was far from the truth.

All it was was giving them the opportunity to appear because it's shift work.

We do have families, you got to address those but things today.

Speaker 1: And now it's within 24 hours.

But also there is a difference in what the officer is allowed to see when he goes into internal affairs.

As I understand it, right?

He can see what is the video and audio and reports about him, but not any other officers in the incident that had been in, Speaker 2: Well, that's a variant of it.

So if, if two officers are involved in the same complaint, the same incident, then they are not allowed to see each other's statement.

But for anyone else, any other officer there, they're allowed to see all the statements and audio and video that's there.

Yeah.

Speaker 1: The evergreen clause after a contract expires, did that maybe force you to, to get things done sooner because I understand that the evergreen clause that was in effect after this other contract, had you raise your premiums by 10% for health insurance.

Speaker 2: Well, that per year, correct.

And that stayed the same.

The insurance stayed the same.

It's still with a 10% escalator.

The evergreen didn't didn't come into play because of the ability of our both negotiating teams from the city side.

And from, from the union side, we were in constant contact and, and, and, and communication to where we settle these things.

We didn't look at the evergreen clause as, as a push to get it done.

It's the work that they were doing that allowed us to continue on.

And we got through a lot of things with, with no issues because we change the dynamic and the atmosphere of being able to sit and talk and discuss things as professionals and not, not argumentative.

Speaker 1: Well, now the chief's complaint had been the last time and this time that he couldn't fire people and have that decision stick, that arbitrators that were called in for non-binding or binding would overturn a half to two thirds of his decisions.

Do you expect that to change with the, Speaker 2: So the only thing that changed was the language in there that the city felt they needed to have in place.

But in actuality, what we asked for from the very beginning was due process.

So in due process, anyone can go to a district county court, federal court, and they're allowed to do process.

They get to see those things and they have the right to appeal.

And that's what we asked for, with an arbitrator.

It's no different.

The chief still has to bring the preponderance of evidence.

If the evidence is there, then it, it upholds the chief suspension.

If it's not there, then the officer would get us.

Speaker 1: And in terms of money, wanting to get into a little more specific, since you had asked for 21%, over five years, it turns out it's 15% with a lump sum, 2% this year, then what is it?

A three and a half to four in the next couple of years.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

So what we looked at was retention and getting people to want to come here.

Look, you have to work together on that.

Because when I first came on, this was the place to work for a 30, 35 year career because of the pay and benefits.

We weren't the highest paid, but in its totality, it was a good place to come now with the time being that it is, we're having a hard time getting people to apply much less.

Let's face it.

Who wants this job?

Now Speaker 1: You're talking about police accountability and, and concerns of activists here who say there should be more civilian oversight, more accountable, Speaker 2: Right.

And what officer C and civilian see is they see all the negative, but what they don't see is the good, right?

So in attracting more, more people to apply for this job, those are some of the things that we looked at also retention because in a year we averaged 35 to 38 people that will leave in a fiscal year as of this.

And that started October 1st, as of January, we had close to 60, that's almost double.

So, you know, it's hard to retain officers now Speaker 1: And recruitment.

I know that's been a problem that's been growing for years, but you said now, especially what are you doing to try to get more people in aside from, you know, when negotiating a good contract and higher pay?

Well, Speaker 2: Was the contract because who wants to come to work at a job where they have no stability, right?

If things are up in the air.

So hopefully that, that will change some of that.

And other than that, it's getting out into the community.

So one of the things that I've done is, is we've enhanced our nonprofit.

We've been getting out into the community with food backpacks, feeding the homeless turkeys at Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1: Part of that's, what you want to do.

And the city wants to do as well.

Just better relations officers and community makes it easier for you, as well as the trust with the community.

Speaker 2: There was, there was a here's the problem is that where we're at now, officers are running call to call the call.

When I first came on, I had the ability because we had more officers at the time for a smaller city to sit and talk to people.

They don't have that opportunity.

Now, the only way I know how to fix that is to use our association, get out into the community so that people see, Hey, we're just like you, we put our pants on the same way you do, but we're here for you.

Let's work together and they get to see us as human beings Speaker 1: And check out the city's website if you're looking for a job.

True.

All right.

Well, thank you very much, Danny Diaz, congratulations on getting that contract done.

I know it was interesting for both sides and say the same thing to the, to the city and we'll see what happens.

It will pass you think officer's and Speaker 2: Yes, sir.

We're in the process of educating our members and then we'll, we'll go from there.

Speaker 1: Alright.

Thanks very much.

Appreciate it.

Danny Diaz of the San Antonio police officers association.

Thanks Speaker 2: For having me.

Speaker 1: Nowhere is the construction boom in Texas hotter right now than in the Texas hill country.

So just how fast is it growing and is that healthy?

What does it mean for all of us?

Well, here to talk about that right now is John Rooney, who was the manager of the Texas hill country conservation network.

And you just came out with a new report, basically talking about the state of the hill country.

And we all know it is growing so quickly, but we don't realize all of the effects and what it means.

One of the big high points of this report.

One of the big things we're trying to get across in this report is that we're coming up on a place where if we don't start really thoughtfully managing the growth that we are experiencing, we are going to find it increasingly difficult, if not impossible, to repair the damage we're doing to the natural environment that we depend on.

And one of the members of the Blanco city council, I think called it a gold rush mentality for developers.

When we see that a little, you know, in the cities in San Antonio, we see things going up right and left, but it's even faster in some of the smaller towns and especially unincorporated areas where they don't have the tools to deal with a regulate at all, any development.

Right?

Right.

Absolutely.

Texas is actually the only state in the country that doesn't provide its county's tools to really thoughtfully plan and manage their growth.

And as you mentioned, leaving no zoning and that leads really incompatible land uses right next to each other.

Things like aggregate operations right next to schools or neighborhoods.

And those things just don't go together and, And you break it down into eight different metrics or measurements in a big part of it, aside from the population numbers is density and water use and what this will affect, you know, the future in terms of water for all of us, not just those out way out in the hill country think, and this is what 18 counties that you looked at.

Yep.

18 counties.

So, and as you mentioned, water is, is the single biggest limiting factor that we have when it comes to the population and just carrying capacity of the region.

San Antonio is no stranger to groundwater.

It's probably one of the few cities around the country where everyone kind of instinctively gets groundwater just because the city's drinking water tends to come from groundwater.

And as more and more straws go into the aquifer from more and more people moving to the region, we're seeing those aquifers decline.

And unfortunately we're not managing our groundwater for sustainability.

We're actually managing for depletion.

And, and that should, I think be a cause for concern for everyone.

And even those of us who've lived here for decades.

We've heard about the water fights and aquifer, and whether there should have been Applewhite reservoir, the aquifer is dropping more and more to the point where say, Jacob's well, people know where that is.

Yep.

Went dry for the first time, a number of years back.

And that's kind of staying where it is.

What does that bode for the longterm?

I sometimes think about, you know, things like Jacob's well, running dry as the Canary in the coal mine, that should be five alarm bell for everyone in the region that we are not living and growing in a way that this region can sustain.

The last few years, we've heard a lot of predictions and estimates.

It went up by 50% of the population in this area within the last 20 years.

It'll go up another 35%.

We're talking close to 6 million, 5.2 million by 2040.

What will that mean?

Say just to traffic.

Oh Gosh.

Well, That's the thing that can get people's attention.

Sure.

I can.

And yeah, I think traffic is going to be a significant problem that we'll be facing.

I think increasingly, especially within our cities, we're going to need to be thinking about how do we get people out of cars and into public transportation, because otherwise we're all just going to be sitting in the parking lot.

That will be.

I mean, the traffic is already bad, but whether it's in the cities or along our highways, we're really going to be coming up on issues.

And another thing as we think about transportation is I personally believe we really have to be moving away from highway expansion that just brings on more traffic, but it also brings around environmental impacts, especially on the recharge zones of aquifers.

So what do you recommend, what are the recommendations of the Alliance or the conservation network?

Because they're smaller towns like a Buda and Blanco and some of those, there are some developments that could double the population basically within their incorporated city limits.

What can you tell people?

You know, you can't pull up the ladder after you, you know, we got here first and we don't want any more.

It's been like that off and on with boom times in Texas.

Is that what it is again, where you have to be anti developer, some people are going to see this and say, well, it's just not fair to those people who want to move here and want Right.

I would be the first to say that we're, we are not anti-growth people are coming here for a reason.

And it's that the hill country is one of the most beautiful areas in the country where we just enjoy an incredibly high quality of life.

I think what we really need is for the state to act and provide counties that the tools that they need to thoughtfully plan for and manage this growth.

And one of the bright spots, I guess, in this report was how successful the Edwards aquifer protection program has been for San Antonio, where we started at 80% sales tax in 2000 and it's protected some 252 square miles, something like that.

Our other cities and counties that were able to do that.

It wasn't always the case, Right?

The Edwards aquifer protection program.

I think as a shining example for conservation, both in Texas, but our end around the country.

Interestingly, I think that a lot of other cities will find it difficult to implement a similar program because most cities have allocated their portion of sales tax revenue.

But what we're seeing increasingly in counties and cities throughout the region is putting forth bond propositions to their voters, for funding that can go towards land conservation creation of Parkland, things like that.

Do you expect the politics to change some of the conservative landowners who might have been for letting me do what I want, notice a change in lifestyle out in these areas that are now pushing for the state, maybe to do a little more regulation.

Again, People are seeing drastic changes on their land.

They're starting to find that they're having trouble getting the water that they need, whether it's for themselves or for their ranching or farming operations.

And I think increasingly we are going to see the public clamoring to their legislators for those tools that they need in order to maintain their quality of life and the way that they live.

Thanks Very much, John Rudy, appreciate it.

Thank you.

And it's Texas is dealing with problems with growth and the environment.

Another concern is plastics, as it turns out because Texas is the center Houston area center for petrochemicals, and it turns out plastic production around the world.

And writing about that.

Everything about business as Chris Tomlinson, the business columnist for the San Antonio express news and the Houston Chronicle joins us now.

And you had a, I thought a fascinating column recently about plastics, which we thought we are doing better at in terms of recycling.

I think people assume that, but the growth, the demand is going up and recycling isn't, isn't what we think it is.

Speaker 2: No it's not.

And you know, we, I think we're all aware that plastic pollution, we see the plastic bags on the street.

We know it's, it's bad for the environment, but w you know, the latest market research shows that demand for plastic is actually growing two to 3% a year.

It's expected to go from 250 million tons last year to 425 million tons by 2030, it's a huge business.

And it's becoming a huge problem because those, that those chemicals that go into plastic are not only showing up in the environment, but also showing up inside our bodies.

Speaker 1: This is a, maybe a story that as well, you're covering over in Houston, because of course the petrochemical industry, we don't realize how much that is important.

What's going on over there in Houston to the plastics industry.

How does that work?

Speaker 2: So plastic is made of polyethylene and polyethylene is derived in the United States from natural gas.

We have an enormous amount of natural gas.

We pipe it to the Gulf coast where things called crackers, turn it into polyethylene.

Then those little plastic pellets are sent out around the world and shaped into different containers.

You know, we've been trying to get into recycling.

The plastics industry talks about creating a circular economy, but unfortunately right now the only types of plastic, they're really good at recycling, these types one and two, the rest of them pretty much just end up in like, Speaker 1: And so the, those blue bins that we have, we put everything in there, but they weed those out.

A lot of that out Speaker 2: That's right.

There are sorters at the recycling facility and, you know, they're, they're trained to pick out those type one and two plastics for recycling because they have some value.

Everything else is just going to go to.

Speaker 1: And there's another concern that you wrote about, I think, a, with a lot more specificity than I've seen before, about microplastics and the effects on the human body, that we're learning more and more about that.

And it's not just what we see is bad and bad for the ocean, but bad for us.

How does that work?

Speaker 2: Well?

So all those plastic containers, those bags, we see they're dissolving, they're dissolving into tiny little microscopic elements and chemicals.

There are 4,000 chemicals that go into plastics.

That's ending up in our water and our groundwater and our food when wrap the food with plastic and Arizona, Arizona state university just did a study where their liver, every person they checked after they died, had a trace element by, by Stefano a, in their livers.

We also know that a, another chemical disrupts our endocrine system and contributes to obesity.

So yes, those microplastics we don't see are as big a problem as those we did.

Speaker 1: And looking forward, what is it going to take?

I know you also wrote about some companies and, and areas that are investing more in say chemical recycling, because the plastics need to be broken down, not just mechanically shredded in different ways.

What, what would it take to get more recycling, to make money and to make sense for areas like San Antonio?

Speaker 2: Well, like all things we have to create a market, you know, we created a market for aluminum, 85% of the aluminum that you touch is recycled and used over and over again.

And the plastics industry has talked about wanting to do that as well.

But to get to those hard, to recycle plastics, you need to have a chemical process of dissolving them back into residence.

And that's really expensive.

So unless there's some sort of regulatory mandates or recycling, or there's a way to finance these chemical recycling centers through a buyback program or something they're not going to take off.

And I think that's what the industry is looking for now is how do we create a for-profit market where this recycling system can pay for itself?

Speaker 1: And speaking of market, we were talking just a moment ago before we were on the air about another big issue right now, which is gas prices and how that is, or isn't affecting the Texas oil business right now with what's going on in Ukraine, people assume, oh, the fracking's going to start again.

The Wells are going to be drilled.

We're going to be rolling in money.

Are we yet?

Or will we even be down the road?

Speaker 2: Well, it's too early to tell.

I mean, certainly the oil companies are making huge profits on these high prices in the moment, but they all know that these kinds of crises can only last maybe a few weeks or a few months.

And then the oil price goes back down again.

So when they're making a decision, whether or not to drill a well, it's going to take six months to produce a product.

They, they are highly suspicious of whether or not these high prices are gonna remain.

And if they're not confident, they'll still be here in six months, they will not spend the money.

They will not hire the fracking crews.

They will not hire the drill operators.

Most of the industry is trying to step up a little bit, bring prices down, but in order to make big investment in, in new fields, they need to see a lot more sustained prices and have an expectation that they're going to stay.

Speaker 1: So people wonder where does that money going to right now that extra dollar or so 60, $80 that I'm spending going?

Is it going straight off the top to the old companies?

Just because demand is so high?

Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.

I mean, there there's oil business is very complicated.

There's traders.

There are people who buy oil and hold it and sell it later.

But throughout that entire value chain, yes, that is where the money is going.

And companies like Exxon and Chevron and have reported massive profits.

Refiners are going to have a harder time seeing any increase in prices because they're paying more for the crude.

But yes, for those who are selling gasoline, everything from that corner store up to the, the crude producer right now, they're, they're making a lot more money than they were expecting to Speaker 1: The higher profit margin.

How long do you think it'll take, say if we see these gas prices for another month that we'll see the fracking fields a lot more business down Southeast of San Antonio?

Speaker 2: Yeah.

I think, I think if the prices are sustained and it looks like the conflict in Ukraine and the schism between Russia and OPEC and the United States is going to continue, you'll see that investment in anywhere from one to three months, it'll start out with the privately owned companies, the small guys, and then work its way up to the big corporates, the publicly traded companies, because you know what you need are investors willing to put the money down to take that risk?

And it always starts with the little guys.

Right.

Speaker 1: All right.

Well, thanks very much, Chris Tomlinson business columnists, where the San Antonio express news and Houston Chronicle, thanks for getting dressed up for us today as well, very business like, and thank you for joining us for this edition of on the record.

You can see this show again, or previous shows as well.

And our podcasts at dot org.

We'll see you there.

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