[soft electronic music] [soft electronic music] >> IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN >> IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN A BIG PART OF TRYING TO FIGURE A BIG PART OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO I AM AND MY WORK, OUT WHO I AM AND MY WORK, IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND SYSTEMS.

IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND SYSTEMS.

>> I THINK MY IDEA IS THIS: >> I THINK MY IDEA IS THIS: NOT SO MUCH STRUCTURE THAT IT'S NOT SO MUCH STRUCTURE THAT IT'S INHIBITING, BUT NOT SO LOOSE INHIBITING, BUT NOT SO LOOSE THAT IT COULD BE ANYTHING.

THAT IT COULD BE ANYTHING.

>> WHENEVER I HAVE A NEW >> WHENEVER I HAVE A NEW QUESTION, I WOULD ALWAYS LIKE TO QUESTION, I WOULD ALWAYS LIKE TO CONTINUE.

CONTINUE.

MY WORK IS ALWAYS IN PROCESS.

MY WORK IS ALWAYS IN PROCESS.

>> WHENEVER I DESIGN A PROJECT, >> WHENEVER I DESIGN A PROJECT, IT'S IN MY HEAD WHILE I'M IT'S IN MY HEAD WHILE I'M DESIGNING IT THAT I WOULD BE DESIGNING IT THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO SHOW SOMEONE ELSE HOW TO ABLE TO SHOW SOMEONE ELSE HOW TO DO IT.

DO IT.

[soft electronic music] [soft electronic music] >> MY EARLIER DRAWINGS >> MY EARLIER DRAWINGS AND PAINTINGS HAD THIS MAPLIKE, AND PAINTINGS HAD THIS MAPLIKE, DIAGRAMMATIC ELEMENT TO THEM.

DIAGRAMMATIC ELEMENT TO THEM.

AS THE WORK HAS SHIFTED TO BEING AS THE WORK HAS SHIFTED TO BEING MORE ATMOSPHERIC OR PAINTERLY, MORE ATMOSPHERIC OR PAINTERLY, I REFRAINED FROM TRYING TO I REFRAINED FROM TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT'S GOING ON IN EXPLAIN WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE PAINTINGS AS MUCH BECAUSE THE PAINTINGS AS MUCH BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THESE KIND OF THEY'RE NOT THESE KIND OF RATIONAL DESCRIPTIONS OR--OR RATIONAL DESCRIPTIONS OR--OR EFFORTS TO ARTICULATE SOMETHING EFFORTS TO ARTICULATE SOMETHING IN THAT WAY.

IN THAT WAY.

I'M NOT TRYING TO SPELL OUT I'M NOT TRYING TO SPELL OUT A STORY.

A STORY.

I STILL THINK YOU FEEL THE I STILL THINK YOU FEEL THE PAINTING, AND THE REASON YOU PAINTING, AND THE REASON YOU READ THE MARK IS ALSO BECAUSE READ THE MARK IS ALSO BECAUSE YOU ALSO FEEL THE MARK.

[soft whirring] >> SO THE TWO PROJECTS THAT >> SO THE TWO PROJECTS THAT WE'RE DOING IN BERLIN: ONE IS WE'RE DOING IN BERLIN: ONE IS A WORK THAT'S ABOUT 21 FEET BY A WORK THAT'S ABOUT 21 FEET BY 85 FEET LONG, AND--ONE PAINTING.

AND THE OTHER IS ANOTHER PROJECT AND THE OTHER IS ANOTHER PROJECT WHERE WE'RE DOING SEVEN WHERE WE'RE DOING SEVEN PAINTINGS THAT ARE SMALL PAINTINGS THAT ARE SMALL IN COMPARISON, 10x14 EACH.

IN COMPARISON, 10x14 EACH.

[airbrush hissing] [airbrush hissing] THE 21x85-FOOT PAINTING WILL THE 21x85-FOOT PAINTING WILL TAKE ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF.

IT'S REALLY ONE PAINTING EVEN IT'S REALLY ONE PAINTING EVEN THOUGH THERE WILL BE EITHER FIVE THOUGH THERE WILL BE EITHER FIVE SECTIONS OR TEN SECTIONS; SECTIONS OR TEN SECTIONS; IT FUNCTIONS AS ONE PAINTING.

IT FUNCTIONS AS ONE PAINTING.

THE STRETCHERS THAT WE'RE USING THE STRETCHERS THAT WE'RE USING ARE NOT GONNA BE THE STRETCHERS ARE NOT GONNA BE THE STRETCHERS THAT WE'RE USING ON-SITE.

THAT WE'RE USING ON-SITE.

SO THESE PAINTINGS WILL BE TAKEN SO THESE PAINTINGS WILL BE TAKEN OFF OF THESE STRETCHERS, ROLLED OFF OF THESE STRETCHERS, ROLLED UP, SHIPPED BACK, AND THEN UP, SHIPPED BACK, AND THEN RESTRETCHED AT THE SITE.

>> JUST WATCH OUT FOR THE >> JUST WATCH OUT FOR THE COLUMN, THOUGH.

COLUMN, THOUGH.

>> THE REASON THAT WE'RE IN >> THE REASON THAT WE'RE IN BERLIN IS BECAUSE JULIE'S STUDIO BERLIN IS BECAUSE JULIE'S STUDIO IN NEW YORK CAN'T ACCOMMODATE IN NEW YORK CAN'T ACCOMMODATE SOMETHING OF THIS SCALE.

SOMETHING OF THIS SCALE.

THIS PROJECT JUST KIND OF HAD THIS PROJECT JUST KIND OF HAD TO DICTATE WHERE IT WAS GONNA BE TO DICTATE WHERE IT WAS GONNA BE MORE THAN WE WERE GONNA DICTATE MORE THAN WE WERE GONNA DICTATE WHERE IT WAS GONNA BE.

WHERE IT WAS GONNA BE.

IT'S EPIC.

IT'S EPIC.

THIS PLACE WAS THREE TIMES THIS PLACE WAS THREE TIMES BIGGER THAN WHAT WE ENVISIONED.

BIGGER THAN WHAT WE ENVISIONED.

SO WE WERE ABLE TO DESIGN ALL SO WE WERE ABLE TO DESIGN ALL THE WALLS, DO WHATEVER WE WANT THE WALLS, DO WHATEVER WE WANT TO THE SPACES, AND JUST HAVE TO THE SPACES, AND JUST HAVE EVERYTHING THAT WE NEEDED AND EVERYTHING THAT WE NEEDED AND WANTED.

WANTED.

THIS IS JUST SOMETHING THAT YOU THIS IS JUST SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN'T, UNFORTUNATELY, GET IN CAN'T, UNFORTUNATELY, GET IN NEW YORK.

NEW YORK.

SO WE JUST TOOK IT AND SO WE JUST TOOK IT AND RAN WITH IT.

RAN WITH IT.

>> THIS PROJECT IS CRAZY.

>> THIS PROJECT IS CRAZY.

[chuckles] [chuckles] EVERYTHING IS NEW: THE SIZE, EVERYTHING IS NEW: THE SIZE, THE SPACE, JUST WORKING IN THE SPACE, JUST WORKING IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY, TRYING TO A DIFFERENT COUNTRY, TRYING TO GET MATERIALS.

GET MATERIALS.

IT'S JUST--IT'S CRAZY.

[sprayer hissing] [sprayer hissing] WE ALL KIND OF HAVE OUR OWN WE ALL KIND OF HAVE OUR OWN DIFFERENT JOBS THAT WE'VE KIND DIFFERENT JOBS THAT WE'VE KIND OF DEVELOPED.

OF DEVELOPED.

MOSTLY I DO THE SURFACES.

MOSTLY I DO THE SURFACES.

JULIE IS ALL FOR JULIE IS ALL FOR EXPERIMENTATIONS.

I STARTED DEVELOPING THIS NEW I STARTED DEVELOPING THIS NEW SURFACE: KIND OF THIS, LIKE, SURFACE: KIND OF THIS, LIKE, ACRYLIC-BASED, ALMOST LIKE ACRYLIC-BASED, ALMOST LIKE ABSORBENT PAPER SURFACE.

ABSORBENT PAPER SURFACE.

SO SHE CAN ACTUALLY PAINT ON SO SHE CAN ACTUALLY PAINT ON THESE SURFACES ALMOST LIKE THESE SURFACES ALMOST LIKE PAPER, BUT THEY CAN BE PAPER, BUT THEY CAN BE ANY SCALE.

>> JANUARY OF 2007, I WAS >> JANUARY OF 2007, I WAS WORKING ON SOME NEW PAINTINGS, WORKING ON SOME NEW PAINTINGS, AND IN THAT PROCESS, I HAD BEEN AND IN THAT PROCESS, I HAD BEEN DOING A BUNCH OF WATERCOLORS.

DOING A BUNCH OF WATERCOLORS.

WHEN I WAS WORKING ON THE WHEN I WAS WORKING ON THE WATERCOLORS, THERE WAS THIS WATERCOLORS, THERE WAS THIS PHENOMENON THAT WAS HAPPENING PHENOMENON THAT WAS HAPPENING IN THOSE THAT I WANTED TO TRY IN THOSE THAT I WANTED TO TRY AND BRING INTO THE PAINTING.

AND BRING INTO THE PAINTING.

IN ONE PAINTING, IT WAS JUST NOT IN ONE PAINTING, IT WAS JUST NOT WORKING.

WORKING.

I KEPT PUSHING THE COLOR INTO I KEPT PUSHING THE COLOR INTO THIS PAINTING WHERE THERE'D BEEN THIS PAINTING WHERE THERE'D BEEN THIS INTENSE AMOUNT OF DRAWING THIS INTENSE AMOUNT OF DRAWING AND THIS INTENSE ACTION BETWEEN AND THIS INTENSE ACTION BETWEEN ALL THESE DIFFERENT MARKS.

ALL THESE DIFFERENT MARKS.

AND SO AT ONE POINT, I JUST AND SO AT ONE POINT, I JUST STARTED TO SAND AWAY ALL THE-- STARTED TO SAND AWAY ALL THE-- ALL THE COLOR THAT CAME ALL THE COLOR THAT CAME INTO THE WORK.

INTO THE WORK.

AND AT ONE POINT WHEN I HAD AND AT ONE POINT WHEN I HAD FINISHED SANDING IT, I TURNED FINISHED SANDING IT, I TURNED AROUND AND LOOKED AT IT, AROUND AND LOOKED AT IT, AND IT WAS A FINISHED PAINTING.

AND IT WAS A FINISHED PAINTING.

THAT--IT WAS ALMOST-- THAT--IT WAS ALMOST-- THAT'S WHEN I CALLED IT THIS THAT'S WHEN I CALLED IT THIS POLTERGEIST IN THE WORK.

POLTERGEIST IN THE WORK.

AND IT BECAME THIS ABSENCE, AND IT BECAME THIS ABSENCE, THIS--THE--THE ERASURE ITSELF THIS--THE--THE ERASURE ITSELF BECAME THE ACTION.

BECAME THE ACTION.

AND IT REMINDED ME THE CAVES OF AND IT REMINDED ME THE CAVES OF THE BUDDHAS IN AFGHANISTAN ONCE THE BUDDHAS IN AFGHANISTAN ONCE THE TALIBAN REMOVED THOSE THE TALIBAN REMOVED THOSE BUDDHAS: THAT IMAGE OF THEIR BUDDHAS: THAT IMAGE OF THEIR ABSENCE.

ABSENCE.

IT WAS ALMOST THAT TYPE OF IT WAS ALMOST THAT TYPE OF FEELING TO THIS AREA IN THIS FEELING TO THIS AREA IN THIS PAINTING.

PAINTING.

IT FELT TO ME TO KIND OF SUGGEST IT FELT TO ME TO KIND OF SUGGEST A MOMENT A MOMENT IN TERMS OF HOW IN TERMS OF HOW SAD OR PESSIMISTIC YOU CAN FEEL SAD OR PESSIMISTIC YOU CAN FEEL IN A POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT AND-- IN A POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT AND-- OR KIND OF HISTORICAL SITUATION OR KIND OF HISTORICAL SITUATION THAT WE'RE IN GLOBALLY.

THAT WE'RE IN GLOBALLY.

SO IT FELT LIKE THIS REALLY, SO IT FELT LIKE THIS REALLY, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HOPEFUL YOU KNOW, KIND OF HOPEFUL GESTURE IN THE PAINTING, FOR ME.

I'M AN ETHIOPIAN-AMERICAN.

I'M AN ETHIOPIAN-AMERICAN.

MY--YOU KNOW, A BIG PART OF MY MY--YOU KNOW, A BIG PART OF MY FAMILY IS ETHIOPIAN, BUT I'VE FAMILY IS ETHIOPIAN, BUT I'VE BEEN IN THE STATES SINCE BEEN IN THE STATES SINCE I WAS SIX.

I WAS SIX.

I WAS RAISED IN MICHIGAN.

I WAS RAISED IN MICHIGAN.

I LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY, I LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY, FOR THE MOST PART.

FOR THE MOST PART.

I'M IN BERLIN NOW.

I'M IN BERLIN NOW.

BUT, I MEAN, WHEN I MOVE AROUND BUT, I MEAN, WHEN I MOVE AROUND THE WORLD, I MOVE AROUND THE THE WORLD, I MOVE AROUND THE WORLD AS AN AMERICAN.

BEING A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED BEING A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OR OF ANY ONE IN THE STATES OR OF ANY ONE IN THE EUROPEAN UNION, YOU ARE EUROPEAN UNION, YOU ARE A CITIZEN OF INCREDIBLE A CITIZEN OF INCREDIBLE PRIVILEGE.

PRIVILEGE.

I THINK ANYONE WHO IS AWARE OF I THINK ANYONE WHO IS AWARE OF THAT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME THAT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY.

>> WE BASICALLY HAVE A PLAN >> WE BASICALLY HAVE A PLAN FROM JULIE THAT HAS THESE FROM JULIE THAT HAS THESE MULTI-LAYERS OF SHAPES AND MULTI-LAYERS OF SHAPES AND LINE WORK AND THESE FORMS THAT LINE WORK AND THESE FORMS THAT SHE'S GOTTEN FROM DIFFERENT SHE'S GOTTEN FROM DIFFERENT AREAS, AND FOR US TO BE ABLE AREAS, AND FOR US TO BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY REPLICATE THAT TO ACTUALLY REPLICATE THAT SUCCESSFULLY, WE THEN HAVE TO SUCCESSFULLY, WE THEN HAVE TO TAKE IT AND JUST SAY, TAKE IT AND JUST SAY, "ALL RIGHT, WELL, THIS SHAPE, "ALL RIGHT, WELL, THIS SHAPE, THIS SHAPE, THIS SHAPE IS UNDER THIS SHAPE, THIS SHAPE IS UNDER THESE TEN SHAPES, WHICH ARE THESE TEN SHAPES, WHICH ARE UNDER THESE FIVE SHAPES BUT ARE UNDER THESE FIVE SHAPES BUT ARE ABOVE THESE SIX SHAPES."

ABOVE THESE SIX SHAPES."

AND THEN LAYER BY LAYER, WE'LL AND THEN LAYER BY LAYER, WE'LL PROJECT AND, YOU KNOW, MASK AND PROJECT AND, YOU KNOW, MASK AND PAINT OR AIRBRUSH OR DRAW, PAINT OR AIRBRUSH OR DRAW, HOWEVER WE CAN, GET HER ORIGINAL HOWEVER WE CAN, GET HER ORIGINAL SOURCE UP ONTO THE SURFACE.

SOURCE UP ONTO THE SURFACE.

SO SOMETIMES IT CAN BE A SIMPLE SO SOMETIMES IT CAN BE A SIMPLE COMPOSITION THAT WE ONLY HAVE COMPOSITION THAT WE ONLY HAVE TO BREAK APART INTO THREE OR TO BREAK APART INTO THREE OR FOUR LAYERS, OR SOMETIMES IT'LL FOUR LAYERS, OR SOMETIMES IT'LL BE A DETAILED COMPOSITION BE A DETAILED COMPOSITION THAT WE HAVE BREAK INTO THAT WE HAVE BREAK INTO 15, 20 SUBLAYERS.

[indistinct conversation] >> FOR THIS NEXT SHOW, WHICH IS >> FOR THIS NEXT SHOW, WHICH IS FOR THE GUGGENHEIM, I'M MAKING FOR THE GUGGENHEIM, I'M MAKING SEVEN PAINTINGS THAT ARE 10 FEET SEVEN PAINTINGS THAT ARE 10 FEET BY 14 FEET.

BY 14 FEET.

MANY PARTS OF THE DRAWING MANY PARTS OF THE DRAWING WILL ALSO BE ERASED.

WILL ALSO BE ERASED.

SO THE PAINTINGS WILL BUILD UP, SO THE PAINTINGS WILL BUILD UP, AND THEN A BIG PORTION OF THEM AND THEN A BIG PORTION OF THEM SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER WILL SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER WILL DISAPPEAR.

DISAPPEAR.

SO THEN HOPEFULLY, THE PAINTINGS SO THEN HOPEFULLY, THE PAINTINGS WILL ALSO JUST INTERACT TO TALK WILL ALSO JUST INTERACT TO TALK ABOUT DISINTEGRATION.

ABOUT DISINTEGRATION.

I TRY TO START THE GROUP OF I TRY TO START THE GROUP OF PAINTINGS WITH EACH HAVING THEIR PAINTINGS WITH EACH HAVING THEIR OWN KIND OF ARCHITECTURAL OWN KIND OF ARCHITECTURAL INFORMATION.

INFORMATION.

THIS PIECE RIGHT NOW, IT'S JUST THIS PIECE RIGHT NOW, IT'S JUST DIFFERENT VIEWS FROM GOOGLE DIFFERENT VIEWS FROM GOOGLE EARTH, YOU KNOW, OF NEW YORK EARTH, YOU KNOW, OF NEW YORK CITY AND TOKYO.

CITY AND TOKYO.

BASICALLY, IT'S TRACING, BECAUSE BASICALLY, IT'S TRACING, BECAUSE THAT TAKES SO LONG, AND A LOT OF THAT TAKES SO LONG, AND A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT THE ASSISTANTS THE STUFF THAT THE ASSISTANTS DO, IT BECOMES A GROUND FOR DO, IT BECOMES A GROUND FOR MY WORK.

MY WORK.

I'M SO BLESSED TO HAVE SUCH I'M SO BLESSED TO HAVE SUCH A GREAT TEAM.

A GREAT TEAM.

THIS WOULD BE A NIGHTMARE IF IT THIS WOULD BE A NIGHTMARE IF IT WASN'T SUCH A GREAT GROUP OF WASN'T SUCH A GREAT GROUP OF PEOPLE.

PEOPLE.

THE DIFFICULT PART IS, WE HAVE THE DIFFICULT PART IS, WE HAVE NOT THAT MUCH TIME.

NOT THAT MUCH TIME.

WE HAVE A YEAR FROM NOW.

WE HAVE A YEAR FROM NOW.

AND WE HAVE TO TRUST THE PROCESS AND WE HAVE TO TRUST THE PROCESS AND TRUST THE INTUITION AND AND TRUST THE INTUITION AND TRUST--AND TRUST THAT HOPEFULLY TRUST--AND TRUST THAT HOPEFULLY IT MANIFESTS ITSELF, AND WE'LL-- IT MANIFESTS ITSELF, AND WE'LL-- AND THAT I'LL BE ABLE TO MAKE AND THAT I'LL BE ABLE TO MAKE THESE PICTURES WORK, I MEAN, THESE PICTURES WORK, I MEAN, BECAUSE AFTER THE INITIAL WORK BECAUSE AFTER THE INITIAL WORK IS DONE BY EVERYONE ELSE, IS DONE BY EVERYONE ELSE, IT'S UP TO ME TO REALLY GO IN IT'S UP TO ME TO REALLY GO IN AND DRAW ON ALL OF THEM AND DRAW ON ALL OF THEM AND COMPLETE THEM.

[indistinct conversations] THE LARGE COMMISSION HAS THE LARGE COMMISSION HAS A REALLY SPECIFIC POINT OF A REALLY SPECIFIC POINT OF DEPARTURE IN TERMS OF WHAT IT'S DEPARTURE IN TERMS OF WHAT IT'S CONCEPTUALLY TRYING TO DEAL CONCEPTUALLY TRYING TO DEAL WITH.

IF YOU'RE GONNA MAKE A PICTURE IF YOU'RE GONNA MAKE A PICTURE OF THAT SCALE AND EMBED THAT AND OF THAT SCALE AND EMBED THAT AND LOCATE THAT IN LOWER MANHATTAN, LOCATE THAT IN LOWER MANHATTAN, WHICH IS WHERE IT'S COMMISSIONED WHICH IS WHERE IT'S COMMISSIONED FOR, CAN YOU DEAL, THEN, WITH FOR, CAN YOU DEAL, THEN, WITH WHAT LOWER MANHATTAN SYMBOLIZES?

WHAT LOWER MANHATTAN SYMBOLIZES?

IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN A BIG PART OF TRYING TO FIGURE A BIG PART OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO I AM AND MY WORK, OUT WHO I AM AND MY WORK, IS TRYING UNDERSTAND SYSTEMS.

WHAT YOU'VE SEEN HERE IS ONLY WHAT YOU'VE SEEN HERE IS ONLY THE FIRST LAYER OF INFORMATION, THE FIRST LAYER OF INFORMATION, AND THAT FIRST LAYER OF AND THAT FIRST LAYER OF INFORMATION IS HOPEFULLY INFORMATION IS HOPEFULLY SOMETHING THAT MIMICS EARLY MAPS SOMETHING THAT MIMICS EARLY MAPS FROM THE EARLY SILK ROAD FROM THE EARLY SILK ROAD THROUGH THE EVOLUTION OF THE THROUGH THE EVOLUTION OF THE MARKETPLACE.

CAN YOU ACTUALLY MAKE A PICTURE CAN YOU ACTUALLY MAKE A PICTURE THAT IN SOME WAY MAPS AND GIVES THAT IN SOME WAY MAPS AND GIVES A PICTURE OF THIS HISTORY OF THE A PICTURE OF THIS HISTORY OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF--YOU KNOW, DEVELOPMENT OF--YOU KNOW, CAPITALIST DEVELOPMENT, CAPITALIST DEVELOPMENT, ECONOMIC SYSTEM?

ECONOMIC SYSTEM?

WHICH IS ABSURD.

IT'S-- WHICH IS ABSURD.

IT'S-- [chuckles] >> CAN YOU SEPARATE IT OUT?

>> CAN YOU SEPARATE IT OUT?

>> THAT I CAN.

>> THAT I CAN.

>> NO, BUT IF THEY JUST DRAW-- >> NO, BUT IF THEY JUST DRAW-- LIKE JUST DRAW THESE LIKE JUST DRAW THESE LITTLE SECTIONS.

LITTLE SECTIONS.

>> RIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

YOU CAN'T TELL WHAT'S WHAT, YOU CAN'T TELL WHAT'S WHAT, THEN.

THEN.

THAT WHOLE-- THAT WHOLE-- WHAT IT DOES IS, IT JUST BUILDS WHAT IT DOES IS, IT JUST BUILDS LIKE THESE PLATEAUS OF SPACE.

LIKE THESE PLATEAUS OF SPACE.

IT CREATES A SPACE.

IT CREATES A SPACE.

[machine rumbles] [machine rumbles] >> [speaks indistinctly] >> [speaks indistinctly] THAT KIND OF DRAWING, THAT KIND OF DRAWING, BUT I THINK THAT IF YOU HAD IT BUT I THINK THAT IF YOU HAD IT WITH NO RECOGNIZABLE WITH NO RECOGNIZABLE BUILDINGS WHATSOEVER-- BUILDINGS WHATSOEVER-- >> NO.

>> NO.

>> I THINK INEVITABLY AS AN >> I THINK INEVITABLY AS AN ARTIST COUPLE, YOU'RE GONNA ARTIST COUPLE, YOU'RE GONNA IMPACT EACH OTHER AND INFLUENCE IMPACT EACH OTHER AND INFLUENCE EACH OTHER AND... EACH OTHER AND... >> IT'S, LIKE, ABOUT, LIKE, >> IT'S, LIKE, ABOUT, LIKE, FRAGMENTED SPACE, FRAGMENTED SPACE, AND THEN SO MUCH OF AND THEN SO MUCH OF THAT IS LIKE... THAT IS LIKE... >> I MEAN, WE'VE ALWAYS WORKED >> I MEAN, WE'VE ALWAYS WORKED THAT WAY, EVER SINCE WE FIRST THAT WAY, EVER SINCE WE FIRST STARTED LIVING AND WORKING STARTED LIVING AND WORKING TOGETHER, EIGHT YEARS AGO NOW.

TOGETHER, EIGHT YEARS AGO NOW.

WE'VE--IT'S JUST A VERY ORGANIC WE'VE--IT'S JUST A VERY ORGANIC PROCESS, AND THAT'S SORT OF THE PROCESS, AND THAT'S SORT OF THE WAY WE LEAD OUR LIVES.

WAY WE LEAD OUR LIVES.

AND IN NEW YORK, OUR STUDIOS AND IN NEW YORK, OUR STUDIOS ARE IN OUR HOUSE, SO UNTIL, ARE IN OUR HOUSE, SO UNTIL, YOU KNOW, RECENTLY--OUR SON YOU KNOW, RECENTLY--OUR SON STARTED GOING TO SCHOOL STARTED GOING TO SCHOOL RECENTLY, BUT HE WAS IN AND OUT RECENTLY, BUT HE WAS IN AND OUT OF OUR STUDIO ALL DAY TOO.

OF OUR STUDIO ALL DAY TOO.

AND IT'S--YOU KNOW, WE LOOK AT AND IT'S--YOU KNOW, WE LOOK AT EACH OTHER'S WORK ALL DAY.

EACH OTHER'S WORK ALL DAY.

WE SORT OF GIVE EACH OTHER WE SORT OF GIVE EACH OTHER FEEDBACK.

FEEDBACK.

WE NOTICE SOMETHING IN THE WE NOTICE SOMETHING IN THE NEWSPAPER AND MENTION IT.

NEWSPAPER AND MENTION IT.

I MEAN, IT JUST--IT'S SORT OF, I MEAN, IT JUST--IT'S SORT OF, I DON'T KNOW--IT'S BEEN-- I DON'T KNOW--IT'S BEEN-- IT'S GROWN ORGANICALLY, AND IT'S GROWN ORGANICALLY, AND THAT'S--IT REALLY WORKS FOR US.

>> THERE IS A LOT OF FLUIDITY >> THERE IS A LOT OF FLUIDITY BETWEEN US.

BETWEEN US.

THERE ARE MOMENTS WHERE HER WORK THERE ARE MOMENTS WHERE HER WORK SEEPS THROUGH MY WORK AND SEEPS THROUGH MY WORK AND IN AND OUT OF IT.

WE LOOK AT EACH OTHER'S WORK WE LOOK AT EACH OTHER'S WORK MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE'S WORK, MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE'S WORK, AND SO THAT HAS TO HAPPEN.

AND SO THAT HAS TO HAPPEN.

ALMOST ANYTHING IN THE ALMOST ANYTHING IN THE ENVIRONMENT TENDS TO INFORM ENVIRONMENT TENDS TO INFORM YOUR WORK, FOR ME, IN ONE WAY YOUR WORK, FOR ME, IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

OR ANOTHER.

DIFFERENT STUDIOS HAVE DONE THAT DIFFERENT STUDIOS HAVE DONE THAT FOR MY WORK AS WELL.

FOR MY WORK AS WELL.

DIFFERENT--DIFFERENT-- DIFFERENT--DIFFERENT-- LIVING IN DIFFERENT PLACES, LIVING IN DIFFERENT PLACES, WHETHER IT'S A PLACE THAT HAS WHETHER IT'S A PLACE THAT HAS A VIEW OR NO VIEW, IT ALL-- A VIEW OR NO VIEW, IT ALL-- KIND OF THAT SPACE AND KIND OF THAT SPACE AND THE LIGHT, ALL OF THOSE ELEMENTS THE LIGHT, ALL OF THOSE ELEMENTS AFFECT, FOR ME, A BIG PART OF AFFECT, FOR ME, A BIG PART OF THE WAY THAT I END UP EVOLVING THE WAY THAT I END UP EVOLVING WITH THE WORK.

THE THING THAT KEEPS ME GOING IS THE THING THAT KEEPS ME GOING IS THE PAINTING, THE PAINTING, AND IN GETTING LOST IN DOING AND IN GETTING LOST IN DOING THAT, LANGUAGE IS INVENTED.

A WAY OF WORKING IN THE LANGUAGE A WAY OF WORKING IN THE LANGUAGE HAS EVOLVED FOR THE LAST-- HAS EVOLVED FOR THE LAST-- THROUGH THE LAST TEN YEARS, THROUGH THE LAST TEN YEARS, BUT THE PAINTINGS HAVE CHANGED BUT THE PAINTINGS HAVE CHANGED EVERY YEAR THROUGH THAT, SLOWLY, EVERY YEAR THROUGH THAT, SLOWLY, BECAUSE PAINTING IS SLOW.

BECAUSE PAINTING IS SLOW.

IN THE END, IT'S ABOUT TRYING TO IN THE END, IT'S ABOUT TRYING TO MAKE THE PAINTING.

[soft electronic music] [soft electronic music] >> I'M ALWAYS INTERESTED IN >> I'M ALWAYS INTERESTED IN THINGS THAT WE DON'T CALL ART, THINGS THAT WE DON'T CALL ART, AND I'D SAY, "WELL, WHY NOT?

AND I'D SAY, "WELL, WHY NOT?

I MEAN, WHY--YOU KNOW, WHAT I MEAN, WHY--YOU KNOW, WHAT COULD I DO THIS TO MAKE IT ART?

COULD I DO THIS TO MAKE IT ART?

HOW COULD I CHANGE PEOPLE'S HOW COULD I CHANGE PEOPLE'S MINDS?

MINDS?

[machine humming] [machine humming] I AM MAKING ART.

I AM MAKING ART.

I AM MAKING ART.

I AM MAKING ART.

YOU KNOW, I LOVE IT.

YOU KNOW, I LOVE IT.

LIKE--LIKE, YOU KNOW, ALL OF LIKE--LIKE, YOU KNOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN, BECAUSE I SAID A SUDDEN, BECAUSE I SAID IT'S ART, SOMEBODY BELIEVES ME.

WHAT INTERESTS ME IN LIFE IS THE WHAT INTERESTS ME IN LIFE IS THE ABSURDITY IN LIFE.

ABSURDITY IN LIFE.

[laughs] [door closes] [door closes] >> HEY, JOHN.

>> HEY, JOHN.

>> HI, MARIE.

>> HI, MARIE.

>> OKAY, I GOT THESE NEW ONES.

>> OKAY, I GOT THESE NEW ONES.

>> OH, GOOD.

>> OH, GOOD.

>> A COUPLE OF THEM... >> A COUPLE OF THEM... >> GOOD.

>> GOOD.

>> THAT I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS >> THAT I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT.

ABOUT.

I'LL PUT THEM UP.

>> ART MAKING IS ABOUT MAKING >> ART MAKING IS ABOUT MAKING A CHOICE.

A CHOICE.

FOR ME, IT WAS LIKE YOU CHOOSE FOR ME, IT WAS LIKE YOU CHOOSE ONE THING OVER ANOTHER: ONE THING OVER ANOTHER: THIS COLOR OVER THAT COLOR THIS COLOR OVER THAT COLOR OR THIS OBJECT OVER THAT OBJECT OR THIS OBJECT OVER THAT OBJECT OR--YOU KNOW, ON AND ON AND ON.

OR--YOU KNOW, ON AND ON AND ON.

AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE.

AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE.

>> OKAY, SO THE QUESTIONS THAT >> OKAY, SO THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAD ABOUT THESE ONES ARE, I HAD ABOUT THESE ONES ARE, I KNOW THAT YOU WANT THESE I KNOW THAT YOU WANT THESE FRAMED INDIVIDUALLY, BUT DO YOU FRAMED INDIVIDUALLY, BUT DO YOU ALSO WANT THESE FRAMED ALSO WANT THESE FRAMED INDIVIDUALLY, OR ARE THEY JUST INDIVIDUALLY, OR ARE THEY JUST GONNA BE ONE PRINT THAT'S FRAMED GONNA BE ONE PRINT THAT'S FRAMED IN ONE FRAME?

IN ONE FRAME?

>> THEY'LL BE IN A SINGLE FRAME.

>> THEY'LL BE IN A SINGLE FRAME.

>> OKAY.

>> OKAY.

>> WELL, MAYBE NOT NOW BUT >> WELL, MAYBE NOT NOW BUT LATER, YOU KNOW, I HAVE OTHER LATER, YOU KNOW, I HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT WE COULD TALK QUESTIONS THAT WE COULD TALK ABOUT, YEAH.

ABOUT, YEAH.

>> OKAY.

NO PROBLEM.

>> OKAY.

NO PROBLEM.

>> MY EMERGENCE IN THE ART >> MY EMERGENCE IN THE ART WORLD: I WAS LINKED WITH WORLD: I WAS LINKED WITH CONCEPTUAL ART, MINIMAL ART.

CONCEPTUAL ART, MINIMAL ART.

NEVER QUITE TOTALLY SUBSCRIBED NEVER QUITE TOTALLY SUBSCRIBED TO IT; I THOUGHT IT WAS TO IT; I THOUGHT IT WAS A LITTLE BORING.

A LITTLE BORING.

BUT THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS BUT THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS I DIDN'T WANT TO SHED, AND ONE I DIDN'T WANT TO SHED, AND ONE OF THEM WAS BEING TASTEFUL.

OF THEM WAS BEING TASTEFUL.

THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I GAVE THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I GAVE UP PAINTING, BECAUSE IT WAS ALL UP PAINTING, BECAUSE IT WAS ALL ABOUT BEING TASTEFUL: YOU KNOW, ABOUT BEING TASTEFUL: YOU KNOW, THE RIGHT RED NEXT TO THE RIGHT THE RIGHT RED NEXT TO THE RIGHT BLUE, AND YOU'RE VERY CAREFULLY BLUE, AND YOU'RE VERY CAREFULLY MIXING THE COLORS.

MIXING THE COLORS.

I JUST DECIDED TO BE I JUST DECIDED TO BE VERY SYSTEMATIC ABOUT IT VERY SYSTEMATIC ABOUT IT AND USE THE COLOR WHEEL.

YEAH, I LIKE THE GUY-- YEAH, I LIKE THE GUY-- THE GREEN GUY.

THE GREEN GUY.

HE MIGHT BE TOO GREEN.

HE MIGHT BE TOO GREEN.

I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW.

>> OH, YEAH?

>> OH, YEAH?

>> I'M STILL THINKING ABOUT IT.

>> I'M STILL THINKING ABOUT IT.

>> YEAH, A LITTLE TOXIC GREEN.

>> YEAH, A LITTLE TOXIC GREEN.

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW.

ANYTHING ELSE?

ANYTHING ELSE?

MY FATHER WAS CATHOLIC.

MY FATHER WAS CATHOLIC.

MY MOTHER WAS LUTHERAN.

MY MOTHER WAS LUTHERAN.

I WENT TO A METHODIST CHURCH.

I WENT TO A METHODIST CHURCH.

THAT WAS THE LOCAL CHURCH.

THAT WAS THE LOCAL CHURCH.

I CERTAINLY GOT A LOVE OF I CERTAINLY GOT A LOVE OF LITERATURE, READING THE BIBLE, LITERATURE, READING THE BIBLE, YOU KNOW, THE KING JAMES YOU KNOW, THE KING JAMES VERSION.

VERSION.

AND I GOT A REAL SENSE OF AND I GOT A REAL SENSE OF MORAL OBLIGATION, AND I THINK MORAL OBLIGATION, AND I THINK THAT'S WHY I WAS A LATER STARTER THAT'S WHY I WAS A LATER STARTER IN ART, BECAUSE I-- IN ART, BECAUSE I-- ART DIDN'T SEEM TO DO ANYBODY ART DIDN'T SEEM TO DO ANYBODY ANY GOOD THAT I COULD SEE.

ANY GOOD THAT I COULD SEE.

IT DIDN'T HEAL BONES.

IT DIDN'T HEAL BONES.

IT DIDN'T HELP PEOPLE FIND IT DIDN'T HELP PEOPLE FIND SHELTER OR WHATEVER.

SHELTER OR WHATEVER.

AND I WANTED TO BE A SOCIAL AND I WANTED TO BE A SOCIAL WORKER, I THINK.

GOT TO SAY, I OWE IT TO GOT TO SAY, I OWE IT TO MY SISTER.

MY SISTER.

I GOT MY DEGREE IN ART, AND SHE I GOT MY DEGREE IN ART, AND SHE SAID, "WELL, HOW ARE YOU GONNA SAID, "WELL, HOW ARE YOU GONNA SUPPORT YOURSELF?"

SUPPORT YOURSELF?"

[chuckles] [chuckles] SO I GOT A TEACHING CREDENTIAL.

SO I GOT A TEACHING CREDENTIAL.

TEACHING IS ABOUT COMMUNICATION.

TEACHING IS ABOUT COMMUNICATION.

LECTURING DOESN'T DO IT.

LECTURING DOESN'T DO IT.

YOU HAVE TO SEE THE LIGHT IN THE YOU HAVE TO SEE THE LIGHT IN THE STUDENTS' EYES THAT THEY GET IT.

STUDENTS' EYES THAT THEY GET IT.

AND IF YOU DON'T SEE THE LIGHT, AND IF YOU DON'T SEE THE LIGHT, THEN YOU TRY ANOTHER APPROACH THEN YOU TRY ANOTHER APPROACH AND ANOTHER APPROACH AND ANOTHER APPROACH UNTIL THEY GET IT.

UNTIL THEY GET IT.

AND THEN I REALIZED THAT ART WAS AND THEN I REALIZED THAT ART WAS ABOUT COMMUNICATION.

ABOUT COMMUNICATION.

I WAS LEARNING HOW TO I WAS LEARNING HOW TO COMMUNICATE BY TEACHING.

COMMUNICATE BY TEACHING.

AND--AND THEN THE ART INFECTED AND--AND THEN THE ART INFECTED MY CLASSROOM TEACHING, TRYING TO MY CLASSROOM TEACHING, TRYING TO BE INVENTIVE THERE.

BE INVENTIVE THERE.

AND IN EFFECT, I WAS SAYING, AND IN EFFECT, I WAS SAYING, "THE ART I DO IS WHAT I'M "THE ART I DO IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IN THE CLASSROOM, TALKING ABOUT IN THE CLASSROOM, AND VICE VERSA."

AND VICE VERSA."

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE YOU KNOW, THEY'RE INTERCHANGEABLE.

INTERCHANGEABLE.

ONE THING--I WAS TRYING TO TEACH ONE THING--I WAS TRYING TO TEACH STUDENTS HOW TO LOOK.

STUDENTS HOW TO LOOK.

I SAID, "IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT I SAID, "IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT TWO THINGS, DON'T LOOK AT THEM; TWO THINGS, DON'T LOOK AT THEM; LOOK BETWEEN THEM... LOOK BETWEEN THEM... BECAUSE THERE'S THAT STUFF TOO.

BECAUSE THERE'S THAT STUFF TOO.

THAT'S--THIS IS IMPORTANT."

THAT'S--THIS IS IMPORTANT."

BUT WE PRIORITIZE.

BUT WE PRIORITIZE.

WE--YOU KNOW, IF I'M LOOKING AT WE--YOU KNOW, IF I'M LOOKING AT THIS WALL OVER HERE, IT'S NORMAL THIS WALL OVER HERE, IT'S NORMAL TO LOOK AT SOMETHING PINNED TO LOOK AT SOMETHING PINNED TO THE WALL.

TO THE WALL.

I'M NOT LOOKING AT THE SPACE I'M NOT LOOKING AT THE SPACE BETWEEN THOSE TWO THINGS.

BETWEEN THOSE TWO THINGS.

BUT THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

WORDS ARE JUST A WAY WE WORDS ARE JUST A WAY WE COMMUNICATE, IMAGES ARE A WAY COMMUNICATE, IMAGES ARE A WAY WE COMMUNICATE, AND I COULDN'T WE COMMUNICATE, AND I COULDN'T FIGURE OUT WHY THEY HAD TO BE FIGURE OUT WHY THEY HAD TO BE IN DIFFERENT BASKETS.

I THINK IN MY MULTIPLE-IMAGE I THINK IN MY MULTIPLE-IMAGE PIECES, I PROBABLY HAVE THIS PIECES, I PROBABLY HAVE THIS IDEA THAT THERE'S A WORD BEHIND IDEA THAT THERE'S A WORD BEHIND THEM.

THEM.

I'M PROBABLY BUILDING LIKE I'M PROBABLY BUILDING LIKE A WRITER OR A POET BUILDS A WRITER OR A POET BUILDS WITH WORDS.

>> JOHN CAME TO MY STUDIO AT >> JOHN CAME TO MY STUDIO AT UCLA, AND WE HAD A MEETING, AND UCLA, AND WE HAD A MEETING, AND HE SAID, "I HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY HE SAID, "I HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU," WHICH WAS VERY FOR YOU," WHICH WAS VERY EXCITING, I MEAN, JUST TO HEAR EXCITING, I MEAN, JUST TO HEAR THAT, RIGHT?

THAT, RIGHT?

LIKE, I WAS LIKE-- LIKE, I WAS LIKE-- YOU KNOW, I KNEW SOME OF MY YOU KNOW, I KNEW SOME OF MY CLASSMATES WERE MAYBE WORKING CLASSMATES WERE MAYBE WORKING FOR HIM, DOING A LITTLE PAINTING FOR HIM, DOING A LITTLE PAINTING OR WORKING DOING A LITTLE OR WORKING DOING A LITTLE PHOTOSHOP FOR HIM OR SOMETHING PHOTOSHOP FOR HIM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

LIKE THAT.

AND I SAID, "WOW, OKAY, AND I SAID, "WOW, OKAY, WHAT IS IT?"

WHAT IS IT?"

AND HE'S LIKE, "WELL, I JUST GOT AND HE'S LIKE, "WELL, I JUST GOT THIS DOG, AND I NEED SOMEONE THIS DOG, AND I NEED SOMEONE TO WALK HIM."

TO WALK HIM."

[laughing] [laughing] AND I SAID, "OKAY."

AND I SAID, "OKAY."

I'M LIKE, "LET ME THINK I'M LIKE, "LET ME THINK ABOUT IT."

ABOUT IT."

HE KNEW I WAS HAVING A LITTLE HE KNEW I WAS HAVING A LITTLE TROUBLE AT SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, TROUBLE AT SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, LIKE, WITH MY WORK AND GOING LIKE, WITH MY WORK AND GOING THROUGH A LITTLE GRAD SCHOOL THROUGH A LITTLE GRAD SCHOOL CRISIS IN TERMS OF IDEAS AND CRISIS IN TERMS OF IDEAS AND SO ON.

SO ON.

SO HE SAID, "OKAY, EVERY MONDAY, SO HE SAID, "OKAY, EVERY MONDAY, YOU HAVE TO BRING WORK TO ME."

YOU HAVE TO BRING WORK TO ME."

AND SO WE BEGAN.

I THINK HE TAUGHT ME TO BE HUMAN I THINK HE TAUGHT ME TO BE HUMAN WHEN IT COMES TO THE WORK.

WHEN IT COMES TO THE WORK.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS SOMETHING YOU KNOW, THERE IS SOMETHING VERY HUMBLE ABOUT THE WAY VERY HUMBLE ABOUT THE WAY HE WORKS.

HE WORKS.

HE COMES HERE EVERY MORNING HE COMES HERE EVERY MORNING AT THE SAME TIME.

AT THE SAME TIME.

HE SHOWS YOU HOW, YOU KNOW, HE SHOWS YOU HOW, YOU KNOW, IT'S A LONG PROCESS.

IT'S A LONG PROCESS.

I MEAN, IT'S A LIFETIME I MEAN, IT'S A LIFETIME COMMITMENT TO THE WORK.

>> IN THE EARLY YEARS, I WOULD >> IN THE EARLY YEARS, I WOULD JUST MAKE WORK, AND IT WOULD BE JUST MAKE WORK, AND IT WOULD BE SHIPPED TO THE GALLERY.

SHIPPED TO THE GALLERY.

AND THEN ONE WOULD SPEND THREE AND THEN ONE WOULD SPEND THREE OR FOUR DAYS MOVING WORKS AROUND OR FOUR DAYS MOVING WORKS AROUND AND SEEING HOW ONE SPOKE TO THE AND SEEING HOW ONE SPOKE TO THE OTHER, HOW THE SIZE OF ONE WORK OTHER, HOW THE SIZE OF ONE WORK WOULD RELATE TO THE SIZE OF THE WOULD RELATE TO THE SIZE OF THE OTHER, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE OTHER, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE PROBLEMS THAT WOULD MAKE HANGING PROBLEMS THAT WOULD MAKE HANGING ONE WORK NEXT TO ANOTHER LESS ONE WORK NEXT TO ANOTHER LESS GOOD THAN ANOTHER HANGING.

GOOD THAN ANOTHER HANGING.

[chuckles] [chuckles] AND I WOULD ALWAYS SHIP MORE AND I WOULD ALWAYS SHIP MORE WORK THAN I NEEDED BECAUSE YOU WORK THAN I NEEDED BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO NEED.

NEED.

I DID A RETROSPECTIVE SHOW I DID A RETROSPECTIVE SHOW THAT STARTED AT THE MUSEUM OF THAT STARTED AT THE MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY ART IN LOS ANGELES.

CONTEMPORARY ART IN LOS ANGELES.

AND I SAW HOW THEY HAD A MODEL AND I SAW HOW THEY HAD A MODEL AND WORKED WITH EVERYTHING, AND WORKED WITH EVERYTHING, AND I SAID, "WELL, WHY DON'T AND I SAID, "WELL, WHY DON'T I DO THAT?"

THIS IS A MODEL OF THE THIS IS A MODEL OF THE HAUS LANGE BY MIES VAN DER ROHE HAUS LANGE BY MIES VAN DER ROHE IN KREFELD, GERMANY.

IN KREFELD, GERMANY.

ONE OF THE PRINCIPLE THINGS I'M ONE OF THE PRINCIPLE THINGS I'M DOING WITH THE MIES VAN DER ROHE DOING WITH THE MIES VAN DER ROHE HAUS IS TO USE HIS MATERIALS IN HAUS IS TO USE HIS MATERIALS IN A WAY THAT WOULD BE MORE THAN HE A WAY THAT WOULD BE MORE THAN HE WOULD HAVE USED THEM.

WOULD HAVE USED THEM.

AND THE PRINCIPLE MATERIAL HERE AND THE PRINCIPLE MATERIAL HERE IS BRICK, WHICH HE WASN'T IS BRICK, WHICH HE WASN'T PARTICULARLY FOND OF.

PARTICULARLY FOND OF.

CURIOUSLY, HE DID WORK IN HIS CURIOUSLY, HE DID WORK IN HIS FATHER'S BRICKYARD, SO HE DID FATHER'S BRICKYARD, SO HE DID HAVE SOME FAMILIARITY WITH THE HAVE SOME FAMILIARITY WITH THE MATERIAL.

MATERIAL.

ALL OF THE OUTSIDE WALLS, WHERE ALL OF THE OUTSIDE WALLS, WHERE THERE'S A WINDOW, THEY'RE THERE'S A WINDOW, THEY'RE COVERED UP WITH FAKE BRICK.

COVERED UP WITH FAKE BRICK.

SO YOU WILL SEE NO WINDOWS SO YOU WILL SEE NO WINDOWS WHATSOEVER.

AND MIES VAN DER ROHE WAS VERY AND MIES VAN DER ROHE WAS VERY CAREFUL IN FRAMING THE VIEWS OF CAREFUL IN FRAMING THE VIEWS OF THE GARDEN.

WHERE THERE IS A WINDOW IN WHERE THERE IS A WINDOW IN THE WALLS, THERE WILL BE THE WALLS, THERE WILL BE SUBSTITUTED VIEWS OF THE SUBSTITUTED VIEWS OF THE PACIFIC OCEAN AND LANDSCAPE PACIFIC OCEAN AND LANDSCAPE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

BUT IN FRONT OF EACH WINDOW, BUT IN FRONT OF EACH WINDOW, THERE'LL BE ONE MIES VAN DER THERE'LL BE ONE MIES VAN DER ROHE CHAIR WHERE YOU CAN SIT AND ROHE CHAIR WHERE YOU CAN SIT AND CONTEMPLATE THE VIEW.

CONTEMPLATE THE VIEW.

THEN IN ONE WALL, I'M HAVING THEN IN ONE WALL, I'M HAVING MANUFACTURED AS AN ADDITION MANUFACTURED AS AN ADDITION A COUCH IN THE SHAPE OF AN EAR, A COUCH IN THE SHAPE OF AN EAR, FLANKED LEFT AND RIGHT BY TWO FLANKED LEFT AND RIGHT BY TWO UPTURNED NOSES AS SCONCES UPTURNED NOSES AS SCONCES SO THAT YOU'LL EITHER HAVE LIGHT SO THAT YOU'LL EITHER HAVE LIGHT OR FLOWERS COMING OUT OF THE OR FLOWERS COMING OUT OF THE NOSTRILS.

NOSTRILS.

SO I FIGURED IT'S EVERYTHING SO I FIGURED IT'S EVERYTHING THAT MIES VAN DER ROHE WOULD THAT MIES VAN DER ROHE WOULD HATE.

AND RATHER THAN GLORIFY AND RATHER THAN GLORIFY MIES VAN DER ROHE-- MIES VAN DER ROHE-- HE'S HAD ENOUGH GLORIFICATION-- HE'S HAD ENOUGH GLORIFICATION-- I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD, YOU I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD, YOU KNOW, POKE A LITTLE FUN OF HIM, KNOW, POKE A LITTLE FUN OF HIM, DO REVERSE MIES VAN DER ROHE.

ACTUALLY, I STARTED USING STILLS ACTUALLY, I STARTED USING STILLS FROM MOVIES NOT BECAUSE THEY FROM MOVIES NOT BECAUSE THEY WERE FROM THE MOVIES; WERE FROM THE MOVIES; I COULD GET THE PICTURES I COULD GET THE PICTURES CHEAPLY.

FOR ME, IT'S USING THIS FOR ME, IT'S USING THIS DATA BANK OF IMAGES DATA BANK OF IMAGES PEOPLE CARRY AROUND IN PEOPLE CARRY AROUND IN THEIR HEAD, AND THEN PLAYING AND THEIR HEAD, AND THEN PLAYING AND REARRANGING THOSE IMAGES REARRANGING THOSE IMAGES FOR THEM.

A LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHS I HAD A LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHS I HAD BOUGHT WOULD BE FROM NEWSPAPERS.

BOUGHT WOULD BE FROM NEWSPAPERS.

AND THEY WOULD BE LOCAL AND THEY WOULD BE LOCAL CELEBRITIES, WHATEVER: CELEBRITIES, WHATEVER: THE MAJOR, THE FIRE CHIEF, THE MAJOR, THE FIRE CHIEF, SOME DIGNITARY.

SOME DIGNITARY.

AND A LOT THEM, THEY WOULD BE AND A LOT THEM, THEY WOULD BE POINTING TO THINGS, SHAKING POINTING TO THINGS, SHAKING HANDS, SMILING AT THE-- HANDS, SMILING AT THE-- YOU KNOW, IT'S A PHOTO OP, YOU KNOW, IT'S A PHOTO OP, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THING.

YOU KNOW, KIND OF THING.

STANDING WITH THE PRESIDENT; STANDING WITH THE PRESIDENT; THAT SORT OF THING.

THAT SORT OF THING.

AND I WAS ATTRACTED BUT REPULSED AND I WAS ATTRACTED BUT REPULSED BY THESE, AND I REALIZED WHY BY THESE, AND I REALIZED WHY I WAS REPULSED BY THEM WAS THAT I WAS REPULSED BY THEM WAS THAT I WAS THERE, ISOLATED IN MY I WAS THERE, ISOLATED IN MY STUDIO, AND THESE PEOPLE WERE STUDIO, AND THESE PEOPLE WERE MAKING DECISIONS THAT WOULD MAKING DECISIONS THAT WOULD PROBABLY AFFECT ME, AND, PROBABLY AFFECT ME, AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS NOT DOING YOU KNOW, I WAS NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS I HAD WITH ART IN THE ARGUMENTS I HAD WITH ART IN THE FIRST PLACES, THAT, YOU KNOW, FIRST PLACES, THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT DOING ANYTHING.

I WAS USING THESE PRICE I WAS USING THESE PRICE STICKERS, AND I JUST PUT THEM STICKERS, AND I JUST PUT THEM OVER THE FACES, AND I SAID, OVER THE FACES, AND I SAID, "WOW."

"WOW."

THE PHRASE I KEEP USING IS, THE PHRASE I KEEP USING IS, IT LEVELED THE PLAYING FIELD.

IT LEVELED THE PLAYING FIELD.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, THEY HAD NO ALL OF A SUDDEN, THEY HAD NO POWER ON ME AND REALLY SAW THEM POWER ON ME AND REALLY SAW THEM FOR WHAT THEY WERE.

FOR WHAT THEY WERE.

THEY WERE REPLACEABLE EVEN THEY WERE REPLACEABLE EVEN THOUGH THE PERSON CHANGES.

I THINK MY IDEA IS THIS: I THINK MY IDEA IS THIS: NOT SO MUCH STRUCTURE NOT SO MUCH STRUCTURE THAT IT'S INHIBITING--I MEAN, THAT IT'S INHIBITING--I MEAN, THAT'S THERE'S NO WIGGLE ROOM-- THAT'S THERE'S NO WIGGLE ROOM-- BUT NOT SO LOOSE THAT BUT NOT SO LOOSE THAT IT COULD BE ANYTHING.

IT COULD BE ANYTHING.

I GUESS IT'S LIKE A CORRAL.

I GUESS IT'S LIKE A CORRAL.

IT'S A CORRAL AROUND YOUR IDEA: IT'S A CORRAL AROUND YOUR IDEA: THAT YOU CAN MOVE THAT YOU CAN MOVE BUT NOT TOO MUCH.

BUT NOT TOO MUCH.

AND IT'S THAT LIMITED MOVEMENT AND IT'S THAT LIMITED MOVEMENT THAT PROMOTES CREATIVITY.

I'VE BEEN WORKING OVER THE YEARS I'VE BEEN WORKING OVER THE YEARS WITH VARIOUS BODY PARTS.

WITH VARIOUS BODY PARTS.

I THINK I STARTED OUT WITH I THINK I STARTED OUT WITH NOSES.

NOSES.

AND THEN EARS.

AND THEN EARS.

THEN NOSES AND EARS.

AND NOW I'M DOING FOREHEADS AND NOW I'M DOING FOREHEADS WITH FURROWS WITH FURROWS AND EYEBROWS.

AND EYEBROWS.

YOU KNOW, YOU ALWAYS COME BACK YOU KNOW, YOU ALWAYS COME BACK TO THE SAME IDEA BUT FROM TO THE SAME IDEA BUT FROM A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

YEAH, WE'RE GONNA DO DOG YEAH, WE'RE GONNA DO DOG EYEBROWS NEXT.

EYEBROWS NEXT.

[laughs] [soft electronic music] [soft electronic music] >> IN THIS VIDEO, I'M FACING THE >> IN THIS VIDEO, I'M FACING THE NATURE, AND BEHIND IS THE HUMAN NATURE, AND BEHIND IS THE HUMAN WATCHING ME.

WATCHING ME.

MY ARM IS TOTALLY OUTSTRETCHED MY ARM IS TOTALLY OUTSTRETCHED ONTO THE NATURE.

ONTO THE NATURE.

MY DESIRE IS ABANDONED, MY DESIRE IS ABANDONED, AND MY WILL IS ABANDONED.

AND MY WILL IS ABANDONED.

WITH THAT DURATION OF WITH THAT DURATION OF PERFORMANCE, I EXPERIENCE PERFORMANCE, I EXPERIENCE A CERTAIN TRANSCENDENCE A CERTAIN TRANSCENDENCE OF MYSELF, AND HOPEFULLY OF MYSELF, AND HOPEFULLY AUDIENCE DOES TOO.

I WAS, IN THE BEGINNING, I WAS, IN THE BEGINNING, THINKING OF DOING KIND OF THINKING OF DOING KIND OF A WALKING PERFORMANCE, BUT A WALKING PERFORMANCE, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE I DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE AND HOW.

AND HOW.

SO WE JUST WALKED AROUND THE SO WE JUST WALKED AROUND THE CITY MORE THAN AN HOUR, CITY MORE THAN AN HOUR, JUST WALKING AND WALKING JUST WALKING AND WALKING AND WALKING, AND THEN I ARRIVED AND WALKING, AND THEN I ARRIVED TO SHIBUYA AREA, WHERE SO MANY TO SHIBUYA AREA, WHERE SO MANY PEOPLE WERE PASSING BY.

PEOPLE WERE PASSING BY.

AND I WAS TOTALLY OVERWHELMED AND I WAS TOTALLY OVERWHELMED BY THE CROWDS AROUND ME, BY THE CROWDS AROUND ME, AND MY BODY WAS FULL OF ENERGY AND MY BODY WAS FULL OF ENERGY ACCUMULATED BY THIS WALKING ACCUMULATED BY THIS WALKING AND THINKING OF PEOPLE.

AND THINKING OF PEOPLE.

SO AT THAT MOMENT, I AWARE THE-- SO AT THAT MOMENT, I AWARE THE-- THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN MY BODY THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN MY BODY AND THE CROWD IN THE STREET, AND THE CROWD IN THE STREET, AND I HAD TO STOP THERE.

AND I HAD TO STOP THERE.

I JUST COULDN'T WALK ANYMORE.

I JUST COULDN'T WALK ANYMORE.

I HAD TO STOP THERE.

MY FIRST VIDEO USING MY OWN BODY MY FIRST VIDEO USING MY OWN BODY AS A SYMBOLIC NEEDLE WAS AS A SYMBOLIC NEEDLE WAS IN TOKYO, '99.

THAT IS LIKE--ALMOST LIKE THAT IS LIKE--ALMOST LIKE PUTTING, INSERTING, A NEEDLE PUTTING, INSERTING, A NEEDLE ONTO THE EARTH, IN A WAY.

ONTO THE EARTH, IN A WAY.

AND THAT'S MORE ABOUT MY ENERGY AND THAT'S MORE ABOUT MY ENERGY I HAD AT THE TIME.

MY SYSTEM IS VERY MUCH ROOTED TO MY SYSTEM IS VERY MUCH ROOTED TO THE PRACTICE OF SEWING, THAT THE PRACTICE OF SEWING, THAT USES THE NEEDLE ONTO FABRIC.

I CAME TO A CONCLUSION THAT I CAME TO A CONCLUSION THAT I CAN BE A NEEDLE WOMAN.

I CAN BE A NEEDLE WOMAN.

[laughs] I'M USING THE PEDESTRIANS I'M USING THE PEDESTRIANS PASSING MOMENT AS SLOW MOTION, PASSING MOMENT AS SLOW MOTION, AS IF THEY ARE WEAVED THROUGH AS IF THEY ARE WEAVED THROUGH MY BODY AS A NEEDLE.

IT'S NOT ABOUT SHOWING MY IT'S NOT ABOUT SHOWING MY IDENTITY, SO IT SHOULD BE FROM IDENTITY, SO IT SHOULD BE FROM BEHIND, NOT TO SHOW MY FACE.

THE CAMERA LENS IS MY EYES, THAT THE CAMERA LENS IS MY EYES, THAT SEES MY BACK, THAT SEES THE SEES MY BACK, THAT SEES THE OTHER PEOPLE IN FRONT OF ME.

OTHER PEOPLE IN FRONT OF ME.

SO THERE IS THREE DIFFERENT SO THERE IS THREE DIFFERENT NEEDLE WOMAN NEEDLE WOMAN PERFORMANCES.

MY WORK, IN A WAY, HAS NEVER MY WORK, IN A WAY, HAS NEVER BEEN COMPLETED AS A SINGLE BEEN COMPLETED AS A SINGLE PIECE, I THINK.

PIECE, I THINK.

I'VE THOUGHT ALWAYS MY WORK IS I'VE THOUGHT ALWAYS MY WORK IS IN TRANSITION, IN TRANSITION, ALWAYS IN PROCESS.

ALWAYS IN PROCESS.

I CAN EVER REALLY FINALIZE, I CAN EVER REALLY FINALIZE, "THIS IS COMPLETED," "THIS IS COMPLETED," OR, "THIS IS FINISHED."

OR, "THIS IS FINISHED."

WHENEVER I HAVE A NEW QUESTION, WHENEVER I HAVE A NEW QUESTION, I WOULD ALWAYS LIKE TO CONTINUE I WOULD ALWAYS LIKE TO CONTINUE AND SEE THROUGH DIFFERENT AND SEE THROUGH DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

IN KOREA, WE LIVED IN A HOUSE IN KOREA, WE LIVED IN A HOUSE WITH A STRAW ROOF AND VERY COLD.

WITH A STRAW ROOF AND VERY COLD.

IT WAS REALLY, REALLY COLD.

IT WAS REALLY, REALLY COLD.

AND EVEN THOUGH WE HAD A STOVE AND EVEN THOUGH WE HAD A STOVE IN THE ROOM, WHEN I WOKE UP IN IN THE ROOM, WHEN I WOKE UP IN THE MORNING, THERE WAS FROST ALL THE MORNING, THERE WAS FROST ALL OVER ON THE WALL AROUND THE OVER ON THE WALL AROUND THE ROOM, AND I'D BEEN SCRATCHING ROOM, AND I'D BEEN SCRATCHING ON TOP OF IT, MAKING, LIKE, ON TOP OF IT, MAKING, LIKE, LINES AND DRAWINGS ON IT.

LINES AND DRAWINGS ON IT.

MAYBE THAT'S MY FIRST MAYBE THAT'S MY FIRST DRAWING PIECE.

DRAWING PIECE.

[chuckles] [chuckles] I ALWAYS DISCOVER ARTISTIC I ALWAYS DISCOVER ARTISTIC QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS FROM OUR QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS FROM OUR DAILY LIFE ACTIVITIES.

DAILY LIFE ACTIVITIES.

WAS ONE OF THEM.

WAS ONE OF THEM.

IN KOREAN MEANS IN KOREAN MEANS "BUNDLE."

"BUNDLE."

USUALLY WE CARRY IT WHENEVER WE USUALLY WE CARRY IT WHENEVER WE HAVE PRECIOUS THINGS TO KEEP.

HAVE PRECIOUS THINGS TO KEEP.

BOTTARI BOTTARI AS A THREE-DIMENSIONAL AS A THREE-DIMENSIONAL SCULPTURE, IT WAS AT P.S.1 SCULPTURE, IT WAS AT P.S.1 STUDIO, WHEN I LOOKED BACK STUDIO, WHEN I LOOKED BACK BOTTARI, WHICH BOTTARI, WHICH I MADE BUT DIDN'T REALIZE I MADE BUT DIDN'T REALIZE BEFORE, BECAUSE I'D BEEN ALWAYS BEFORE, BECAUSE I'D BEEN ALWAYS TO STACK TO STACK AND TO KEEP FABRICS IN IT, AND TO KEEP FABRICS IN IT, LOOKED TOTALLY LOOKED TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE ONES BEFORE.

BOTTARI BOTTARI IN DIFFERENT FORMALISTIC WAY OF IN DIFFERENT FORMALISTIC WAY OF SCULPTURE, I STARTED THOSE FOR SCULPTURE, I STARTED THOSE FOR SOME TIME, LIKE A COUPLE OF SOME TIME, LIKE A COUPLE OF YEARS.

YEARS.

THEN WHEN I RETURNED TO KOREA, THEN WHEN I RETURNED TO KOREA, IS OUR IS OUR REALITY, I STARTED SEEING THEM REALITY, I STARTED SEEING THEM IN A DIFFERENT WAY, IN A DIFFERENT WAY, WHICH IS MORE REALISTIC WAY: WHICH IS MORE REALISTIC WAY: THAT IS MORE SOCIAL-, THAT IS MORE SOCIAL-, CULTURAL-RELATED OBJECT RATHER CULTURAL-RELATED OBJECT RATHER THAN FORMALISTIC SCULPTURE.

I DIDN'T REALIZE UNTIL I DID I DIDN'T REALIZE UNTIL I DID CITIES ON THE MOVE: CITIES ON THE MOVE: PERFORMANCE PERFORMANCE ARE ARE VERY MUCH ROOTED TO MY FAMILY VERY MUCH ROOTED TO MY FAMILY HISTORY.

HISTORY.

WE ALWAYS ON THE ROAD.

WE ALWAYS ON THE ROAD.

MY FATHER, BECAUSE OF THE KOREAN MY FATHER, BECAUSE OF THE KOREAN WAR, HE HAD TO GO TO MILITARY, WAR, HE HAD TO GO TO MILITARY, AND THEN HE STAYED IN MILITARY AND THEN HE STAYED IN MILITARY SERVICE.

SERVICE.

WE ALWAYS HAD TO MOVE.

WE ALWAYS HAD TO MOVE.

SO IT'S PART OF OUR FAMILY SO IT'S PART OF OUR FAMILY HISTORY THAT HAD A LITTLE BIT HISTORY THAT HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A NOMADIC LIFE.

INSTALLATION INSTALLATION WITH TIBETAN MONK CHANT... THAT EXAMINE THE AUDIENCE'S BODY THAT EXAMINE THE AUDIENCE'S BODY AS A NEEDLE THAT WEAVES THROUGH AS A NEEDLE THAT WEAVES THROUGH THE LAUNDRY FIELD.

I USE USED BEDCOVERS FROM NEWLY I USE USED BEDCOVERS FROM NEWLY MARRIED COUPLES THAT HAS ALL MARRIED COUPLES THAT HAS ALL THE SYMBOLS AND EMBROIDERIES THE SYMBOLS AND EMBROIDERIES OF ALL WISHES WE WANT TO CARRY OF ALL WISHES WE WANT TO CARRY IN OUR LIVES, IN OUR LIVES, SUCH AS LONG LIFE, LOVE, PEACE, SUCH AS LONG LIFE, LOVE, PEACE, AND FERTILITY.

[faint chanted music playing] [faint chanted music playing] I WAS INVITED TO CREATE A NEW SET-SPECIFIC PROJECT A NEW SET-SPECIFIC PROJECT IN BRUSSELS.

IN BRUSSELS.

AS A PERFECT INSTALLATION FOR AS A PERFECT INSTALLATION FOR THAT SPACE, I THOUGHT OF THAT SPACE, I THOUGHT OF LOTUS: ZONE OF ZERO.

LOTUS: ZONE OF ZERO.

THE SOUND YOU HEAR IN THIS PIECE THE SOUND YOU HEAR IN THIS PIECE IS A MIXTURE OF TIBETAN MONK IS A MIXTURE OF TIBETAN MONK CHANT, GREGORIAN CHANT, CHANT, GREGORIAN CHANT, AND ISLAMIC CHANT.

AND ISLAMIC CHANT.

IS A CENTRAL IS A CENTRAL LOCATION WHERE THE AUDIENCE LOCATION WHERE THE AUDIENCE PERCEIVES THE THREE DIFFERENT PERCEIVES THE THREE DIFFERENT RELIGIOUS CHANTS MERGED RELIGIOUS CHANTS MERGED TOGETHER.

TOGETHER.

[merged chanted music playing] [merged chanted music playing] I USED BUDDHIST LOTUS-SHAPE LANTERNS IN IT.

LANTERNS IN IT.

THERE IS A TRAIN STATION THERE IS A TRAIN STATION CONNECTED TO THE SPACE, CONNECTED TO THE SPACE, SO MANY PEOPLE WALKING BY, SO MANY PEOPLE WALKING BY, YOU KNOW, THROUGH EVERY DAY, YOU KNOW, THROUGH EVERY DAY, IN THE MORNING AND COMING BACK IN THE MORNING AND COMING BACK IN THE EVENING.

IN THE EVENING.

SO IT'S LIKE A REPEATED CEREMONY SO IT'S LIKE A REPEATED CEREMONY OF PEACE FOR THEM.

I SAW THE CRYSTAL PALACE A FEW I SAW THE CRYSTAL PALACE A FEW YEARS BEFORE.

YEARS BEFORE.

AND I WAS REALLY STRUCK BY THE AND I WAS REALLY STRUCK BY THE BEAUTY OF THAT STRUCTURE, BEAUTY OF THAT STRUCTURE, AND I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING.

AND I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING.

AND I STARTED THINKING: AND I STARTED THINKING: THIS SPACE SHOULD BE EMPTY, THIS SPACE SHOULD BE EMPTY, AND USE IT AS SPACE ITSELF AND USE IT AS SPACE ITSELF BY NOT REALLY CREATING SOMETHING BY NOT REALLY CREATING SOMETHING PHYSICAL INSIDE, BUT PUTTING PHYSICAL INSIDE, BUT PUTTING DIFFRACTION GRATING FILM DIFFRACTION GRATING FILM THAT DEFUSES THE LIGHT INTO THAT DEFUSES THE LIGHT INTO RAINBOW SPECTRUM, RAINBOW SPECTRUM, AND THEN PUT MIRROR ALL OVER THE AND THEN PUT MIRROR ALL OVER THE FLOOR THAT REFLECTS THE WHOLE FLOOR THAT REFLECTS THE WHOLE STRUCTURE OF THE CRYSTAL PALACE.

STRUCTURE OF THE CRYSTAL PALACE.

PEOPLE ARE INVITED TO THIS SPACE PEOPLE ARE INVITED TO THIS SPACE THAT IS FILLED WITH MY BREATHING THAT IS FILLED WITH MY BREATHING SOUND IN IT.

SOUND IN IT.

BREATHING IN AND OUT IS ANOTHER BREATHING IN AND OUT IS ANOTHER WAY OF WEAVING AND ANOTHER WAY WAY OF WEAVING AND ANOTHER WAY OF SEWING.

OF SEWING.

I SEE THE CRYSTAL PALACE PIECE I SEE THE CRYSTAL PALACE PIECE OF LIGHT AND SOUND OF LIGHT AND SOUND AND REFLECTION.

AND REFLECTION.

I ALWAYS TRY TO FIND I ALWAYS TRY TO FIND A TRANSCENDENT MOMENT IN SPACE A TRANSCENDENT MOMENT IN SPACE WITHIN MY WORK.

WITHIN MY WORK.

MY INTENTION IS TO REACH TO THE MY INTENTION IS TO REACH TO THE TOTALITY OF OUR LIFE AND IN ART.

TOTALITY OF OUR LIFE AND IN ART.

SO THAT'S ALWAYS ONE REASON SO THAT'S ALWAYS ONE REASON MY PRACTICE IS QUITE BROAD MY PRACTICE IS QUITE BROAD AND DIVERSE: AND DIVERSE: TO REACH THAT COMPLEXITY TO REACH THAT COMPLEXITY AND COMPREHENSIVENESS.

AND COMPREHENSIVENESS.

I DON'T KNOW IN THE END I DON'T KNOW IN THE END WHERE I COULD REACH, WHERE I COULD REACH, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GET TO BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GET TO THAT COMPREHENSIVE TOTALITY THAT COMPREHENSIVE TOTALITY IN MY WORK.

IN MY WORK.

[the sound of one person [the sound of one person inhaling and exhaling playing] [soft electronic music] [soft electronic music] >> IF YOU CAN DRAW THESE SIMPLE >> IF YOU CAN DRAW THESE SIMPLE FORMS--THE BALL, CONE, CUBE, FORMS--THE BALL, CONE, CUBE, AND CYLINDER--YOU CAN DRAW AND CYLINDER--YOU CAN DRAW A REAL PICTURE THE VERY FIRST A REAL PICTURE THE VERY FIRST TIME YOU TRY.

TIME YOU TRY.

>> I HAD AN UNCLE--HIS NAME WAS >> I HAD AN UNCLE--HIS NAME WAS JON GNAGY--WHO HAD A TELEVISION JON GNAGY--WHO HAD A TELEVISION LEARN TO DRAW.

LEARN TO DRAW.

>> TODAY WE'RE GOING TO DRAW >> TODAY WE'RE GOING TO DRAW A SNOW SCENE, IN WHICH WE MAKE A SNOW SCENE, IN WHICH WE MAKE THE PAPER WORK FOR US.

THE PAPER WORK FOR US.

WE DON'T HAVE TO DO TOO MUCH WE DON'T HAVE TO DO TOO MUCH WORK OURSELVES.

WORK OURSELVES.

>> AND HE WOULD DESIGN THESE >> AND HE WOULD DESIGN THESE DRAWINGS THAT HE COULD THEN DRAWINGS THAT HE COULD THEN TEACH OTHER PEOPLE HOW DO TO.

TEACH OTHER PEOPLE HOW DO TO.

>> JUST PUT IN THOSE RAGGED >> JUST PUT IN THOSE RAGGED STROKES, ALWAYS REMEMBERING THAT STROKES, ALWAYS REMEMBERING THAT A PINE TREE IS A ROUGH CONE A PINE TREE IS A ROUGH CONE FORM.

FORM.

THAT POST, YOU KNOW, THAT POST, YOU KNOW, IS A CYLINDER FORM, IS A CYLINDER FORM, SO YOU SHADE IT DOWN THE LEFT, SO YOU SHADE IT DOWN THE LEFT, LIKE THIS, TO REALLY MAKE IT LIKE THIS, TO REALLY MAKE IT ROUND OUT.

ROUND OUT.

REMEMBER, OUR LIGHT'S COMING REMEMBER, OUR LIGHT'S COMING FROM THE OTHER--UPPER RIGHT.

FROM THE OTHER--UPPER RIGHT.

YES, IT USED TO BE THAT THE YES, IT USED TO BE THAT THE MAILBOX WAS THE CHIEF POINT OF MAILBOX WAS THE CHIEF POINT OF CONTACT, BUT, YOU KNOW, CONTACT, BUT, YOU KNOW, NOWADAYS, A LOT OF THESE FOLKS NOWADAYS, A LOT OF THESE FOLKS HAVE TELEVISION.

HAVE TELEVISION.

>> YOU KNOW, I KNEW HIM, AND >> YOU KNOW, I KNEW HIM, AND I JUST GOT THE FEELING THAT IT I JUST GOT THE FEELING THAT IT NEVER OCCURRED TO HIM TO COME UP NEVER OCCURRED TO HIM TO COME UP WITH A PAINTING OR DRAWING THAT WITH A PAINTING OR DRAWING THAT HE COULDN'T TELL SOMEONE ELSE HE COULDN'T TELL SOMEONE ELSE STEP-BY-STEP HOW TO DO.

STEP-BY-STEP HOW TO DO.

SO I WAS JUST A CHILD, SO I WAS JUST A CHILD, BUT THAT INFLUENCED ME.

BUT THAT INFLUENCED ME.

WHENEVER I DESIGN A PROJECT, WHENEVER I DESIGN A PROJECT, IT'S IN MY HEAD WHILE I'M IT'S IN MY HEAD WHILE I'M DESIGNING IT THAT I WOULD BE DESIGNING IT THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO SHOW SOMEONE ELSE HOW TO ABLE TO SHOW SOMEONE ELSE HOW TO DO IT.

DO IT.

THIS LOOKS A LITTLE BARE UP THIS LOOKS A LITTLE BARE UP HERE, BUT FOR NOW, IT'S OKAY, HERE, BUT FOR NOW, IT'S OKAY, I GUESS.

I GUESS.

THE DRAWINGS THAT I SENT THE DRAWINGS THAT I SENT TO SAO PAULO WERE DONE IN 1989, TO SAO PAULO WERE DONE IN 1989, AND THEY WERE CREATED FROM AND THEY WERE CREATED FROM TEMPLATES THAT I MADE IN 1988.

TEMPLATES THAT I MADE IN 1988.

THE STIMULUS FOR THIS PARTICULAR THE STIMULUS FOR THIS PARTICULAR DRAWINGS DRAWINGS WERE TRIGGERED BY AN INTEREST WERE TRIGGERED BY AN INTEREST IN HERALDRY AND THE WAY THAT IN HERALDRY AND THE WAY THAT FAMILIES COME UP WITH IMAGES TO FAMILIES COME UP WITH IMAGES TO REPRESENT THEIR FAMILY.

REPRESENT THEIR FAMILY.

AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT SYMBOLS, AND I WAS THINKING, SYMBOLS, AND I WAS THINKING, "WELL, OKAY, WE TYPICALLY CREATE "WELL, OKAY, WE TYPICALLY CREATE SINGULAR SYMBOLS SO THAT WE CAN SINGULAR SYMBOLS SO THAT WE CAN ALL FEEL WE BELONG."

ALL FEEL WE BELONG."

LIKE, WE LOOK AT THE AMERICAN LIKE, WE LOOK AT THE AMERICAN FLAG, AND WE SAY, "OH, WE'RE ALL FLAG, AND WE SAY, "OH, WE'RE ALL AMERICANS."

AMERICANS."

IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT IF ONE IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT IF ONE USED A CERTAIN KIND OF LOGIC USED A CERTAIN KIND OF LOGIC AND REALLY WORKED AT IT, AND REALLY WORKED AT IT, ONE COULD COME UP WITH A SYSTEM ONE COULD COME UP WITH A SYSTEM THAT WOULD PRODUCE A SHAPE FOR THAT WOULD PRODUCE A SHAPE FOR EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET.

EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET.

THE IDEA OF TRYING TO PICTURE THE IDEA OF TRYING TO PICTURE A BILLION OR A MILLION A BILLION OR A MILLION IS SOMETHING WE THINK WE CAN DO.

IS SOMETHING WE THINK WE CAN DO.

BUT WE CAN'T.

SAY YOU'RE A GENERAL IN THE SAY YOU'RE A GENERAL IN THE ARMY, AND YOU HAVE TO SEND ARMY, AND YOU HAVE TO SEND ALL THESE TROOPS OUT TO HAVE ALL THESE TROOPS OUT TO HAVE A BATTLE, AND YOU KNOW ONLY A BATTLE, AND YOU KNOW ONLY SO MANY ARE GOING TO COME BACK, SO MANY ARE GOING TO COME BACK, AND IT'S GONNA BREAK YOUR HEART AND IT'S GONNA BREAK YOUR HEART AND MAKE YOU SICK UNLESS YOU AND MAKE YOU SICK UNLESS YOU START THINKING OF THEM AS START THINKING OF THEM AS ALL ALIKE IN SOME WAY: JUST ALL ALIKE IN SOME WAY: JUST SOLDIERS, JUST UNITS, YOU KNOW.

SOLDIERS, JUST UNITS, YOU KNOW.

AND, I MEAN, THAT'S AN EXTREME AND, I MEAN, THAT'S AN EXTREME EXAMPLE, BUT THERE'S TIMES WHEN EXAMPLE, BUT THERE'S TIMES WHEN YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT PEOPLE YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT PEOPLE IN CATEGORIES, OR YOU'LL GO IN CATEGORIES, OR YOU'LL GO CRAZY.

CRAZY.

BUT THAT CAN GO WRONG ALSO, AND BUT THAT CAN GO WRONG ALSO, AND IT'S SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO WATCH IT'S SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO WATCH AND THINK ABOUT.

AND THINK ABOUT.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT IS, A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT IS, WHEN YOU GET, LIKE, A WHOLE WHEN YOU GET, LIKE, A WHOLE BUNCH OF THE SAME WIDTH BUNCH OF THE SAME WIDTH AND THE SAME... AND THE SAME... >> MM-HMM.

>> MM-HMM.

>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST ANOTHER >> YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST ANOTHER THING TO... THING TO... >> WAIT, YOU MEAN LIKE DIFFERENT >> WAIT, YOU MEAN LIKE DIFFERENT SIZES?

SIZES?

>> LIKE, YOU DON'T WANT TWO THE >> LIKE, YOU DON'T WANT TWO THE SAME SIZE TOGETHER.

SAME SIZE TOGETHER.

YOU DON'T WANT TWO THE SAME YOU DON'T WANT TWO THE SAME WIDTH TOGETHER.

WIDTH TOGETHER.

YOU DON'T WANT TWO... YOU DON'T WANT TWO... >> YEAH.

>> YEAH.

>> I MEAN, IT'S SO FUNNY.

>> I MEAN, IT'S SO FUNNY.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT'S IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT'S IN THE FRAME, YOU KNOW?

IN THE FRAME, YOU KNOW?

[both chuckle] SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, BUT IF YOU CAN, ABOUT IT, BUT IF YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, SHIFT IT SO THAT-- YOU KNOW, SHIFT IT SO THAT-- >> OKAY, SO I'LL >> OKAY, SO I'LL DOUBLE-CHECK THAT.

DOUBLE-CHECK THAT.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S JUST >> YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S JUST ONE THING.

IN MY YOUTH, I WORKED IN IN MY YOUTH, I WORKED IN FACTORIES QUITE A LOT.

FACTORIES QUITE A LOT.

I MEAN, I WORKED IN INDUSTRIAL I MEAN, I WORKED IN INDUSTRIAL KITCHENS QUITE A LOT.

KITCHENS QUITE A LOT.

AND MY PARENTS WORKED IN AND MY PARENTS WORKED IN FACTORIES.

I FOUND MYSELF WANTING TO TRY TO I FOUND MYSELF WANTING TO TRY TO WORK IN QUANTITIES AND MAKE WORK IN QUANTITIES AND MAKE THINGS THAT WERE SINGULAR AND THINGS THAT WERE SINGULAR AND UNIQUE AT THE SAME TIME.

WE PROBABLY DEFINE UNIQUENESS BY WE PROBABLY DEFINE UNIQUENESS BY THINKING, "OH, IT'S NOT THINKING, "OH, IT'S NOT MASS-PRODUCED."

MASS-PRODUCED."

I FELT I WANTED TO RESOLVE THAT I FELT I WANTED TO RESOLVE THAT ON A HIGHER LEVEL.

ON A HIGHER LEVEL.

BUT THERE IS, OF COURSE, THE BUT THERE IS, OF COURSE, THE DRAMA OF THOUSANDS OF THINGS.

DRAMA OF THOUSANDS OF THINGS.

IT CAN BE NIGHTMARISH, OR IT CAN IT CAN BE NIGHTMARISH, OR IT CAN BE WONDERFUL FEELING OF BE WONDERFUL FEELING OF ABUNDANCE, AND IT CAN GO BACK ABUNDANCE, AND IT CAN GO BACK AND FORTH.

AND FORTH.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF AND THERE'S A LOT OF EMOTIONALITY WHEN YOU SEE EMOTIONALITY WHEN YOU SEE THOUSANDS OF THINGS.

THOUSANDS OF THINGS.

SOME PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO RUN SOME PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO RUN OUT OF THE ROOM WHEN THERE'S OUT OF THE ROOM WHEN THERE'S TOO MANY OBJECTS TO LOOK AT, TOO MANY OBJECTS TO LOOK AT, AND OTHER PEOPLE WOULD STAND AND OTHER PEOPLE WOULD STAND THERE IN AWE.

THERE'S ALSO A KIND OF SCIENCE THERE'S ALSO A KIND OF SCIENCE FICTION ELEMENT IN HERE WHERE-- FICTION ELEMENT IN HERE WHERE-- OF, LIKE, SOMETHING THAT SORT OF OF, LIKE, SOMETHING THAT SORT OF TAKES OVER AND GROWS.

WHEN I'M JUGGLING IDEAS OF WHAT WHEN I'M JUGGLING IDEAS OF WHAT I'M GONNA DO NEXT, ONE OF THE I'M GONNA DO NEXT, ONE OF THE CONSIDERATIONS THAT'S MAJOR CONSIDERATIONS THAT'S MAJOR ALWAYS IN MY MIND IS, "DOES IT ALWAYS IN MY MIND IS, "DOES IT MAKE A GOOD STORY?"

MAKE A GOOD STORY?"

I PUT IT IN MY MIND THAT IT I PUT IT IN MY MIND THAT IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO WORK WOULD BE INTERESTING TO WORK WITH PEOPLE I HAD NEVER MET, WITH PEOPLE I HAD NEVER MET, THAT I ONLY COMMUNICATED WITH THAT I ONLY COMMUNICATED WITH OVER EMAIL OR TELEPHONE.

OVER EMAIL OR TELEPHONE.

LIKE, YOU GO IN TO SEE THE LIKE, YOU GO IN TO SEE THE EXHIBIT.

EXHIBIT.

WELL, IT COULD JUST BE LOOKED AT WELL, IT COULD JUST BE LOOKED AT AS A BUNCH OF LITTLE DECORATIVE AS A BUNCH OF LITTLE DECORATIVE OBJECTS.

OBJECTS.

BUT THERE'S A STORY BUT THERE'S A STORY THAT GOES WITH IT.

THAT GOES WITH IT.

YOU CAN TELL IT RATHER QUICKLY.

YOU CAN TELL IT RATHER QUICKLY.

I WANTED IT TO BE: "OH, THE I WANTED IT TO BE: "OH, THE ARTIST WENT ON THE INTERNET.

ARTIST WENT ON THE INTERNET.

THE ARTIST FOUND FOUR PEOPLE THE ARTIST FOUND FOUR PEOPLE FROM THE STATE OF MAINE WHO ALL FROM THE STATE OF MAINE WHO ALL OF WHOM WORKED FROM THEIR HOMES OF WHOM WORKED FROM THEIR HOMES AND ALL OF WHOM MADE SHAPES, AND ALL OF WHOM MADE SHAPES, AND HE NEVER MET THEM.

AND HE NEVER MET THEM.

IT WAS SORT OF ABOUT THE-- IT WAS SORT OF ABOUT THE-- THE EXOTIC, FARAWAY PLACE, THE EXOTIC, FARAWAY PLACE, I MEAN, WHICH, TO ME-- I MEAN, WHICH, TO ME-- I'VE ONLY BEEN TO MAINE ONCE IN I'VE ONLY BEEN TO MAINE ONCE IN MY LIFE, AND IT SEEMS VERY MY LIFE, AND IT SEEMS VERY EXOTIC TO ME, MAINE.

EXOTIC TO ME, MAINE.

[low, deep rumbling] [low, deep rumbling] AND I STARTED BECOMING AND I STARTED BECOMING INTERESTED IN PEOPLE WHO HAD INTERESTED IN PEOPLE WHO HAD BUSINESSES IN THEIR HOMES AND BUSINESSES IN THEIR HOMES AND ALSO KIND OF VERY INDEPENDENT.

ALSO KIND OF VERY INDEPENDENT.

AND KIND OF LIKE THE CONTRARY TO AND KIND OF LIKE THE CONTRARY TO OUR OBSESSION WITH GLOBALISM OUR OBSESSION WITH GLOBALISM RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, IS THAT RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, IS THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE LOCALLY ALL THERE ARE PEOPLE LOCALLY ALL AROUND US WORKING IN THEIR AROUND US WORKING IN THEIR HOMES, MAKING THOUSANDS OF HOMES, MAKING THOUSANDS OF THINGS.

THINGS.

I LOOKED ON THE WEB.

I LOOKED ON THE WEB.

I LOOKED UP "MAINE," YOU KNOW, I LOOKED UP "MAINE," YOU KNOW, ON--GOOGLED, "MAINE, CRAFT, ON--GOOGLED, "MAINE, CRAFT, HOME," YOU KNOW, ALL THE WORDS HOME," YOU KNOW, ALL THE WORDS THAT WOULD LEAD ME TO PEOPLE WHO THAT WOULD LEAD ME TO PEOPLE WHO WORKED AT HOME AND MADE CRAFT WORKED AT HOME AND MADE CRAFT IN MAINE.

IN MAINE.

AND I HAD TO SIFT THROUGH AND I HAD TO SIFT THROUGH HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS AND-- HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS AND-- AND SLOWLY REALIZED, "THIS IS AND SLOWLY REALIZED, "THIS IS A HUGE THING IN MAINE: YOU KNOW, A HUGE THING IN MAINE: YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WORKING AT HOME MAKING PEOPLE WORKING AT HOME MAKING CRAFTS AND THEN SELLING THEM ON CRAFTS AND THEN SELLING THEM ON THE INTERNET.

THE INTERNET.

I CHOSE A NARROW GROUP OF THEM I CHOSE A NARROW GROUP OF THEM WHO BASICALLY DID SHAPES, WHO BASICALLY DID SHAPES, LIKE RUBBER STAMPS, LIKE RUBBER STAMPS, ORNAMENTS, ORNAMENTS, SILHOUETTES, SILHOUETTES, AND COOKIE CUTTERS.

AND COOKIE CUTTERS.

AND THEN I WROTE THEM LENGTHY AND THEN I WROTE THEM LENGTHY EMAILS ABOUT MY WORK AND WHAT EMAILS ABOUT MY WORK AND WHAT MY INTERESTS WERE AND WHY MY INTERESTS WERE AND WHY I WANTED DO TO THIS, I MEAN, I WANTED DO TO THIS, I MEAN, EMAILS THAT--MUCH TOO LONG, EMAILS THAT--MUCH TOO LONG, I'M SURE.

I'M SURE.

>> I HAD NO IDEA WHO HE WAS.

>> I HAD NO IDEA WHO HE WAS.

MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS THAT HE MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS THAT HE MIGHT BE A KID CLAIMING MIGHT BE A KID CLAIMING TO BE AN ARTIST.

TO BE AN ARTIST.

OF COURSE, YOU DON'T EVER KNOW OF COURSE, YOU DON'T EVER KNOW ON AN EMAIL.

ON AN EMAIL.

AND THEN AFTER I INVESTIGATED AND THEN AFTER I INVESTIGATED AND WENT TO HIS WEBSITE, AND WENT TO HIS WEBSITE, I FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS QUITE I FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS QUITE AN ACCOMPLISHED CONTEMPORARY AN ACCOMPLISHED CONTEMPORARY ARTIST.

[metal clicks softly] [metal clicks softly] >> THE COOKIE CUTTER PEOPLE?

>> THE COOKIE CUTTER PEOPLE?

I DON'T KNOW-- I DON'T KNOW-- I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY-- I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY-- I NEVER WATCHED HOW THEY DID I NEVER WATCHED HOW THEY DID WHAT THEY DID, SO THEY-- WHAT THEY DID, SO THEY-- IF THEY INVENTED A NEW-- IF THEY INVENTED A NEW-- A WAY THEY HADN'T DONE BEFORE-- A WAY THEY HADN'T DONE BEFORE-- I DO KNOW THAT THEY USED TO MAKE I DO KNOW THAT THEY USED TO MAKE SNOWFLAKES, AND THERE'S NO WAY SNOWFLAKES, AND THERE'S NO WAY THIS SHAPE IS MORE COMPLICATED THIS SHAPE IS MORE COMPLICATED THAN THE SNOWFLAKES THAN THE SNOWFLAKES THEY WERE MAKING.

THEY WERE MAKING.

[laughs] [laughs] >> SOME OF HIS SHAPES WERE VERY >> SOME OF HIS SHAPES WERE VERY DIFFICULT.

DIFFICULT.

IT WAS CHALLENGING.

IT WAS CHALLENGING.

[chuckles] [chuckles] AND ACTUALLY, I WOULD SAY, AFTER AND ACTUALLY, I WOULD SAY, AFTER MAKING THE SHAPES FOR ALLAN, MAKING THE SHAPES FOR ALLAN, THAT I'M IMPROVED.

THAT I'M IMPROVED.

I MEAN, I'M BETTER AT WHAT I DO I MEAN, I'M BETTER AT WHAT I DO BECAUSE--BECAUSE OF THAT BECAUSE--BECAUSE OF THAT PROJECT, BECAUSE I ACTUALLY PROJECT, BECAUSE I ACTUALLY LEARNED HOW TO DO SOME THINGS LEARNED HOW TO DO SOME THINGS BETTER.

>> I'VE BEEN DOING >> I'VE BEEN DOING COMBINATORIAL PROJECTS FOR COMBINATORIAL PROJECTS FOR 40 YEARS.

40 YEARS.

ALL MY PROJECTS HAVE HAD ALL MY PROJECTS HAVE HAD COMBINATORIAL ELEMENTS, WHERE COMBINATORIAL ELEMENTS, WHERE I'M TAKING A VOCABULARY OF PARTS I'M TAKING A VOCABULARY OF PARTS AND PUTTING THEM TOGETHER TO AND PUTTING THEM TOGETHER TO MAKE SOMETHING ELSE, YOU KNOW, MAKE SOMETHING ELSE, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS VERY COMPUTERLIKE, WHICH IS VERY COMPUTERLIKE, BUT THERE WAS NEVER ANY COMPUTER BUT THERE WAS NEVER ANY COMPUTER INVOLVED.

INVOLVED.

THE SHAPES THE SHAPES DRAWINGS DRAWINGS INDIVIDUAL WORKS INDIVIDUAL WORKS PROJECT, NEITHER OF WHICH PROJECT, NEITHER OF WHICH INVOLVED ANY COMPUTERS.

INVOLVED ANY COMPUTERS.

THE DRAWINGS EVEN LOOK LIKE THE DRAWINGS EVEN LOOK LIKE THE SHAPES THAT I'M WORKING ON THE SHAPES THAT I'M WORKING ON NOW, BUT THEY WERE ALL DONE BY NOW, BUT THEY WERE ALL DONE BY HAND WITH PENCIL.

HAND WITH PENCIL.

AND I DIDN'T HAVE A COMPUTER AT AND I DIDN'T HAVE A COMPUTER AT THAT TIME.

THAT TIME.

IN THOSE DAYS, I WAS USING IN THOSE DAYS, I WAS USING PHOTOCOPIERS AND STENCILS AND PHOTOCOPIERS AND STENCILS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THINGS LIKE THAT.

WHEREAS IF I HAD TO DO THIS WITH WHEREAS IF I HAD TO DO THIS WITH STENCILS, IT WOULD'VE TAKEN ME STENCILS, IT WOULD'VE TAKEN ME AN HOUR, BUT WHAT I CAN DO NOW AN HOUR, BUT WHAT I CAN DO NOW IS JUST REACH UP HERE IS JUST REACH UP HERE AND COPY ONE SHAPE, LIKE THAT, AND COPY ONE SHAPE, LIKE THAT, AND THEN GO OVER HERE AND THEN GO OVER HERE AND COPY ANOTHER ONE, AND COPY ANOTHER ONE, AND THEN I CAN PUT THOSE AND THEN I CAN PUT THOSE TOGETHER.

TOGETHER.

AND THEN COPY A BOTTOM, AND THEN COPY A BOTTOM, AND PUT THAT TOGETHER.

AND PUT THAT TOGETHER.

AND THEN COPY, YOU KNOW, AND THEN COPY, YOU KNOW, A BOTTOM THAT GOES ON THE RIGHT, A BOTTOM THAT GOES ON THE RIGHT, AND WE'LL PUT THAT TOGETHER.

AND WE'LL PUT THAT TOGETHER.

AND THEN I HAVE A SHAPE, AND THEN I HAVE A SHAPE, AND IT HAS ITS OWN I.D.

NUMBER.

AND IT HAS ITS OWN I.D.

NUMBER.

I MEAN, THIS JUST DOESN'T TAKE I MEAN, THIS JUST DOESN'T TAKE VERY LONG.

VERY LONG.

SO WITH THESE FOUR SHAPES, I CAN SO WITH THESE FOUR SHAPES, I CAN MAKE AROUND 200 OR SO MILLION MAKE AROUND 200 OR SO MILLION UNIQUE SHAPES.

UNIQUE SHAPES.

BUT THERE'S ANOTHER SYSTEM WHERE BUT THERE'S ANOTHER SYSTEM WHERE I USE SIX SHAPES, I USE SIX SHAPES, AND THEN THERE'S THESE THINGS AND THEN THERE'S THESE THINGS I CALL NECKS, LIKE YOUR NECK.

I CALL NECKS, LIKE YOUR NECK.

LIKE, THIS IS A BODY WITH LIKE, THIS IS A BODY WITH A NECK, AND THEN THE TOP PART A NECK, AND THEN THE TOP PART IS A HEAD.

IS A HEAD.

SO THEN ONCE YOU START USING SO THEN ONCE YOU START USING THIS SYSTEM, YOU CAN PRODUCE THIS SYSTEM, YOU CAN PRODUCE 60 BILLION SHAPES.

60 BILLION SHAPES.

ONCE I GOT ALL THE SHAPES MADE, ONCE I GOT ALL THE SHAPES MADE, I STARTED COMBINING THEM INTO I STARTED COMBINING THEM INTO TOPS AND BOTTOMS.

TOPS AND BOTTOMS.

THEN INSTEAD OF MAKING FOUR THEN INSTEAD OF MAKING FOUR PARTS, I WOULD ONLY HAVE TO PUT PARTS, I WOULD ONLY HAVE TO PUT TOGETHER TWO AT A TIME.

TOGETHER TWO AT A TIME.

THEN I PUT THEM IN WHAT I CALL THEN I PUT THEM IN WHAT I CALL ARRAYS OF 144.

ARRAYS OF 144.

SO I CAN COPY THIS ARRAY AND SO I CAN COPY THIS ARRAY AND COMBINE IT WITH THIS ARRAY.

COMBINE IT WITH THIS ARRAY.

THEN I'M MAKING 144 SHAPES THEN I'M MAKING 144 SHAPES AT ONCE, AND THAT'S CALLED AT ONCE, AND THAT'S CALLED A COLLECTION.

A COLLECTION.

THAT'S HOW I PRODUCE THEM: THAT'S HOW I PRODUCE THEM: IN COLLECTIONS OF 144.

IN COLLECTIONS OF 144.

THE NUMBER 144, THERE'S AN IRONY THE NUMBER 144, THERE'S AN IRONY TO IT 'CAUSE IT'S CONSIDERED TO IT 'CAUSE IT'S CONSIDERED A GROSS IN INDUSTRY.

A GROSS IN INDUSTRY.

THIS IS ONE OF THE COLLECTIONS THIS IS ONE OF THE COLLECTIONS THAT WAS SENT TO HORACE VARNUM THAT WAS SENT TO HORACE VARNUM TO DO THE WOODEN SHAPES.

TO DO THE WOODEN SHAPES.

>> EVERY ONE IS ABSOLUTELY >> EVERY ONE IS ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE.

UNIQUE.

EVERY ONE IS DIFFERENT.

SOME, YOU SIT THERE, SOME, YOU SIT THERE, AND YOU WORK WITH THEM.

AND YOU WORK WITH THEM.

YOU CUT WITH THEM.

YOU CUT WITH THEM.

AND IT'S ALMOST LIKE SITTING IN AND IT'S ALMOST LIKE SITTING IN A PSYCHOLOGIST'S OFFICE, AND YOU A PSYCHOLOGIST'S OFFICE, AND YOU SEE SHAPES: THIS IS A WOLF HEAD.

SEE SHAPES: THIS IS A WOLF HEAD.

THIS IS AN ANGEL.

THIS IS AN ANGEL.

THIS IS-- THIS IS-- SO IT'S FUN.

SO IT'S FUN.

[machine whirring] SEE, IT'S SOFT ENOUGH THAT IT SEE, IT'S SOFT ENOUGH THAT IT WON'T CAUSE ANY DAMAGE, UNLESS WON'T CAUSE ANY DAMAGE, UNLESS YOU'RE DOING IT FOR AN HOUR YOU'RE DOING IT FOR AN HOUR OR TWO.

IT'S WHAT THIEVES DO TO TAKE OFF IT'S WHAT THIEVES DO TO TAKE OFF THEIR FINGERPRINTS.

[laughs] >> THE IDEA OF MAKING AN OBJECT >> THE IDEA OF MAKING AN OBJECT FOR EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD FOR EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD IS ABSURD.

IS ABSURD.

YEAH, OF COURSE.

YEAH, OF COURSE.

I MEAN, I COULDN'T POSSIBLY I MEAN, I COULDN'T POSSIBLY DO IT.

DO IT.

BUT IT WOULD BE NICE IF EVERYONE BUT IT WOULD BE NICE IF EVERYONE IN THE WORLD--DOESN'T THIS SOUND IN THE WORLD--DOESN'T THIS SOUND LIKE A CHILD TALKING-- LIKE A CHILD TALKING-- IF EVERYONE IN THE WORLD COULD IF EVERYONE IN THE WORLD COULD AGREE ON A SYMBOLIC SYSTEM, AGREE ON A SYMBOLIC SYSTEM, YOU KNOW?

YOU KNOW?

AND IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET, AND IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET, BUT IT'S--I THINK IT'S-- BUT IT'S--I THINK IT'S-- IT MIGHT, YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT, YOU KNOW, ONE DAY.

[soft electronic music] [soft electronic music] CaptionMax CaptionMax www.captionmax.com >> announcer: TO LEARN MORE >> announcer: TO LEARN MORE ART: 21, ART IN THE 21ST ART: 21, ART IN THE 21ST AND ITS EDUCATIONAL AND ITS EDUCATIONAL RESOURCES, PLEASE VISIT US RESOURCES, PLEASE VISIT US ONLINE AT: ART: 21, ART IN THE 21ST ART: 21, ART IN THE 21ST IS AVAILABLE IS AVAILABLE ON BLU-RAY AND DVD.

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