MY PRACTICE IS BOTH DéCOLLAGE, AND COLLAGE.

I AM A BUILDER, AND A DEMOLISHER.

I PUT UP SO I CAN TEAR DOWN.

THERE IS A PLACE IN THE WORK WHERE THERE'S THE KERNEL OF MINDLESSNESS, WHICH IS MEANT TO BE SCARY.

I USE REAL LIGHT, REAL SURFACE.

I DON'T USE ANY ILLUSION.

IT'S THE REAL THING.

IT'S A REAL EXPERIENCE.

[ LAUGHS ] FOR US THE IDEA OF HAVING A WORK THAT HAVE CONTRADICTIONS, HOW CAN YOU PUT ALL THESE THINGS, THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER ONE, WELL, YOU USE GLUE, AN IDEOLOGICAL GLUE.

YOU KNOW WHAT?

LET'S JUST PUT IT UP.

Man: AND THEN WE ADJUST IT LATER.

Bradford: YEAH, YEAH, AND IF IT'S A PROBLEM, ALL YOUR FAULT.

[ LAUGHS ] NEVER ON ME.

[ LAUGHS ] HOW DO YOU DO THIS, BECAUSE THESE WERE ADVERTISEMENTS?

YEAH, ON THE FENCES.

I ONLY TAKE THE ADVERTISEMENTS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH BUSINESSES.

AFTER THE RIOT, SO MANY BUILDINGS WERE BURNT DOWN THAT THEY PUT THIS FENCING AROUND IT, AND SO EVERYBODY STARTS TO USE THE FENCING FOR THESE SIGNS.

BUT YOU SEE THE SAME THINGS ALL THE TIME IN THE GHETTO.

"CASH."

"FOR YOUR HOUSES."

IT'S LIKE CASH, WE BUY YOUR HOUSES.

I LIKE THIS ONE.

"IMMIGRATION PAPERS IN 30 DAYS."

HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?

"LOCKS FOR HAIR."

BLACK PEOPLE AND HAIR.

I TAKE TWINE, YOU KNOW, STRING, GLUE, ALL DOWN AROUND IT, AND THEN I TAKE THE BILLBOARD PAPER, AND I TURN IT ON THE BACK SIDE, NOT THE GOOD SIDE, BUT THE BACK SIDE.

I LAY IT ON AND LET IT DRY, AND IT LIKE -- AND THEN I SAND IT.

AND SOME, I DON'T -- YOU CAN'T -- THE LANGUAGE IS ALL GONE, A LITTLE BIT GONE, SOMETIMES IT WORKS BETTER.

JUST -- YEAH, IT'S JUST INFORMATION IN THE CITY.

YOU SEE IT ALL THE TIME.

FOUND SOME -- OH, THAT'S NICE.

A HEAD.

I SUPPOSE I CAN PUT THAT OVER THERE.

MY PRACTICE IS BOTH DéCOLLAGE, AND COLLAGE, AT THE SAME TIME.

HOW WOULD THAT LOOK?

DéCOLLAGE, I TAKE IT AWAY, AND THEN COLLAGE I IMMEDIATELY ADD IT RIGHT BACK.

SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO NOT PUT STUFF ON TOP.

YOU GOT TO RETRIEVE SOMETHING THAT'S UNDER THE BOTTOM.

[ SANDER BUZZING ] THERE'S THAT "S"?

THERE'S THAT "S".

I SAVED IT.

MAKE SURE THE COLOR IS RIGHT.

OKAY.

THE LINE OF MY MAKING, OR MY ART PRACTICE GOES BACK TO MY CHILDHOOD, BUT IT'S NOT AN ART BACKGROUND, IT'S A MAKING BACKGROUND.

YEAH, THAT'S GOOD.

ME MAKING THE SIGN OF THE PRICES IN MY MOTHER'S HAIR SALON, I WAS IN CHARGE OF THAT, SO I WOULD DO CALLIGRAPHY.

I LEARNED HOW TO -- TEACH -- I TAUGHT MYSELF CALLIGRAPHY, SO I COULD MAKE THEM VERY -- VERY FANCY ON THE WALL.

SO THIS HAND -- THE HAND WAS VERY EARLY IN MY WORK.

SIGNAGE, TEXTS, BUT NOT PERFECT.

IT ALWAYS GOT A LITTLE SLIMMER AT THE END, 'CAUSE I WOULDN'T MEASURE IT PROPERLY.

BUT IT WORKED OUT.

SHE ALWAYS SAID, "OH, NEXT TIME.

IT'S OKAY.

WHEN I RAISE THE PRICES, YOU'LL HAVE ANOTHER CHANCE."

HA HA.

YEAH, THE MAKE -- YEAH, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A MAKER.

IN DADDY, DADDY, DADDY, I WAS USING MATERIALS THAT HAD MEMORY, MEMORY FROM WORKING AT THE HAIR SALON, AND I WAS USING A LOT OF END PAPERS.

END PAPERS ARE USED WHEN YOU ARE DOING A PERM.

I WAS ALSO THINKING A LOT ABOUT MUSIC AT THE TIME.

MUSIC FRAGMENTS, SO DADDY, DADDY, DADDY KIND OF CAME OUT OF THAT.

BLACK VENUS WAS ONE OF THE MAP-LIKE PAINTINGS.

I WAS REALLY THINKING OF MAPMAKING, AND ALSO THE HISTORY OF ABSTRACTION, BECAUSE IN SOME WAYS, I LOOK AT MAPS AS SORT OF THESE ABSTRACT GRIDS.

BALDWIN HILLS IS WHERE THE SORT OF BLACK, WEALTHY PEOPLE OF LOS ANGELES LIVE.

SO I WENT DRIVING AROUND, AND CAME TO AN ADDRESS, AND I MADE UP AN IMAGINARY STORY ABOUT WHO LIVED THERE.

I ACTUALLY GOOGLED AND GOOGLE-MAPPED THIS ADDRESS.

AND THEN IT JUST BECAME MORE AND MORE PUSHED INTO MY IMAGINATION.

I LOVE SOCCER, AND I DECIDED THAT I WANTED TO CRAFT MY OWN SORT OF IMAGINARY LEAGUE OF PLAYERS.

GAME RECOGNIZES GAME, IT WAS THE LARGEST PIECE, ACTUALLY, TO DATE THAT I HAD MADE, AND I LOVE THE FRAGILE HEROICNESS OF IT.

AND IT WAS ALL CONSTRUCTED OF PAPER.

IT WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT I PUT A PAINTING AND A SCULPTURE IN PROXIMITY, AND I WAS TRYING TO SORT OF ACTIVATE A THIRD THING.

LOS MOSCOS WAS REALLY ME DIRECTLY WANTING TO DEAL WITH ISSUES OF ABSTRACTION, MODERNISM, ABSTRACT EXPRESSIONISM -- IT REALLY KIND OF EXPLODED FOR ME.

PEOPLE SAY THAT THEY'RE COLLAGES, I JUST THINK THAT THEY'RE PAINTINGS.

YOU KNOW, IT'S ON CANVAS, IT'S A PAINTING.

AT CAL ARTS, WHAT I DID DISCOVER WAS BODIES OF IDEAS.

I NEVER KNEW WHAT THE POSTMODERN CONDITION WAS, I NEVER HEARD OF IT.

I NEVER KNEW ABOUT FOUCAULT, AND BELL HOOKS, AND CORNEL WEST.

I NEVER READ THOSE TYPE OF WRITINGS, BUT I LIVED WITH PEOPLE WHO WERE LIVING THOSE TYPE OF LIVES.

SO I REMEMBER COMING HOME, AND TELLING MY MOTHER, OH, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE POSTMODERN.

SHE SAID, "OH, THAT'S SWEET."

SO I -- SO I FELT LIKE I DISCOVERED FRIENDS IN THESE BOOKS, THESE WRITERS, I FELT -- I DISCOVERED THESE REVOLUTIONARY PEOPLE THAT WERE DOING THESE REALLY REVOLUTIONARY THINGS.

SO IT WAS THE WRITINGS THAT GOT ME REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY ENTHUSIASTIC.

I WANTED TO CREATE THE FEELING OF BEING OUTDOORS AND INDOORS AT THE SAME TIME.

AS YOU WALK IN, ONE SIDE IS JUST COVERED WITH INFORMATION.

ON THE OPPOSITE, YOU HAVE THE REFLECTION OF THESE MERCHANT POSTERS IN THIS SORT OF MIRROR CORRIDOR.

YOU HAVE THIS SORT OF FUNHOUSE EFFECT.

THIS TYPE OF ADVERTISING, WHICH MAINLY YOU SEE ON CYCLONE FENCING, HAS A RELATIONSHIP TO THE BODY.

IT'S ABOUT THE CONDITIONS THAT ARE GOING ON AT THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT AND AT THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION.

YOU HAVE "100% ROACHES GONE" NEXT TO "ARE YOU A LICENSED BARBER?"

BUT IF YOU PUT "MY CHILD SAYS DADDY" RIGHT NEXT TO "HOW TO OPEN A SOBER LIVING FACILITY" AND "LIFETIME INDIAN HAIR" REALLY, A STORY STARTS TO UNFOLD.

AS YOU MOVE DOWN THIS CORRIDOR, YOU COME INTO A SMALLER ROOM, AND YOU HEAR MUSIC.

YOU HEAR PEOPLE CELEBRATING.

THERE ARE TWO VIDEOS ON OPPOSITE WALLS.

ONE VIDEO IS OF THE MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY PARADE IN LOS ANGELES.

AND YOU SEE PEOPLE WHO ARE REMEMBERING THIS POLITICAL FIGURE.

THE OTHER IS OF A MARKETPLACE IN EGYPT.

THIS ACTUAL NIGHT MARKET IS ONLY FOR MUSLIMS.

THEY'RE ON OPPOSING WALLS, BUT THEY ARE FACING EACH OTHER.

I GO TO THE PARADE EVERY YEAR.

CERTAIN DETAILS, YOU START TO SEE OVER AND OVER, AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, SUCH AS THE POLICING.

THERE'S AS MUCH POLICING OF THE PARADE AS A PARADE.

EVERY FRAME -- AND IT'S NOT THAT I TRIED TO PUT POLICE IN IT, THEY WERE JUST IN EVERY FRAME.

TO SEE SO MANY BLACK BODIES IN PUBLIC SPACE, IT'S ALWAYS POLITICAL, ALWAYS A POLITICAL CONDITION.

ON THE CAIRO SIDE, THERE WAS NO POLICE, THERE WAS NO POLICING, THESE WERE JUST FAMILIES ENJOYING THEMSELF.

BUT THE MUSLIM BODY HAS BECOME SO POLITICALLY CHARGED THAT THE SPACE THEREFORE IS CHARGED.

THEY'RE BOTH POLITICIZED SITES.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THEY'RE ABOUT CELEBRATION AS WELL.

[ Sander buzzing ] AH, NOT GOOD.

OKAY.

THAT WAS GOOD.

I NOTICED THAT MY ART PRACTICE IS VERY DETAILED, LABOR-INTENSIVE, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S A WAY OF SLOWING MYSELF DOWN SO THAT I CAN HEAR MYSELF THINK, SO I CAN HEAR THE VOICES A LITTLE BIT MORE QUIET, SO I CAN HEAR MAYBE THE DECISION THAT MIGHT COME THROUGH THAT'S A LITTLE LESS LARGE.

THAT QUIETER VOICE HAS SOMETIMES THE MORE INTERESTING IDEA, IF I CAN GET TO IT.

I STILL DON'T KNOW HOW THIS IS GOING TO HANG.

I STILL DON'T EVEN KNOW -- TO ME, I LIKE IT WITH THE TACKS IN IT, BUT WELL -- MAYBE BRIGHT-COLORED TACKS.

I'M NOT SURE HOW IT'S GOING TO HANG.

I JUST THOUGHT TO PUT IT IN A BOX, SEND IT DOWN THERE, STACK IT UP, AND PUT IT IN A BOX.

IT'S -- JUST-- MAKING THIS PIECE FOR BRAZIL.

AND NOW IT'S BRAZIL, RIGHT?

I MEAN, YOU'RE MAKING A PIECE IN YOUR STUDIO IN L.A. AND YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT BRAZIL, YOU KNOW?

YOU NEVER BEEN TO BRAZIL.

THAT'S IT?

Woman: YEAH.

WELL, I THINK IT -- I THINK IT KIND OF WORKS.

TA-DA!

[ LAUGHS ] PRACTICE WAS A VIDEO THAT I DID A COUPLE YEARS AGO, AND I WANTED TO DO A VIDEO OF ME PLAYING BASKETBALL.

BUT I WANTED TO CREATE A CONDITION, A STRUGGLE.

I WOULD CREATE THIS HUGE ANTEBELLUM HOOP SKIRT OUT OF A LAKER UNIFORM.

MY GOAL WAS TO FOCUS ON DRIBBLING THE BASKETBALL, AND MAKING THE SHOT, BUT OBVIOUSLY WHEN YOU HAVE AN ANTEBELLUM SKIRT FANNING OUT ABOUT FOUR FEET AROUND YOU THAT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT.

AND IT WAS AN INCREDIBLY WINDY DAY, ONE OF THOSE SANTA ANNA, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, WINDY DAYS WHERE EVERYTHING WAS BLOWING.

WHAT IT CREATED WAS THIS BILLOWING OF THE WIND.

IT WOULD CATCH UNDERNEATH THE DRESS.

IT BECAME ALMOST LIKE I WAS FLOATING, AND I WOULD FALL AND GET UP.

I WOULD MAKE THE SHOT SOMETIMES, AND I WOULDN'T, AND I WOULD ALWAYS GET UP.

IT WAS ABOUT ROADBLOCKS ON EVERY LEVEL -- CULTURAL, GENDER, RACIAL.

REGARDLESS THAT THEY'RE THERE, IT IS IMPORTANT TO CONTINUE.

YOU KEEP GOING.

YOU KEEP GOING, AND SO THAT'S WHAT IT WAS.

AND I MADE THE HOOP, I MADE THE SHOT.

I ALWAYS MAKE THE SHOT.

SOMETIMES IT TAKES ME A LITTLE LONGER TO GET THERE, BUT I ALWAYS MAKE THE SHOT.

WALK TO THE CENTER OF THE ROOM, AND THEN CHANGE PLACES.

IT'S A SINGULAR FIGURE, AND THEN THE GROUP.

[ FINGER SNAPPING, ULULATING ] THREE, PIVOT.

ONE, TWO, THREE, PIVOT.

ONE, TWO, THREE, PIVOT.

PIVOT.

ONE, ONE, TWO, ONE.

I WAS ALWAYS INTERESTED IN THE BODY'S CAPACITY FOR SIGNIFICATION.

ONE, ONE, ONE -- WHAT WAS THIS KIND OF POTENTIAL FOR INFINITE TRANSFORMATION?

ONE, TWO.

PIVOT.

PIVOT, OKAY, VERY NICE, GOOD.

OKAY, GET SOME AIR.

THAT LOOKED REALLY LIKE EXPERIMENTAL THEATER FROM -- Woman: THE '70S.

THE '70S.

EVEN THOUGH, BY THE TIME I WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD, I HAD NEVER SEEN A PIECE OF LIVE THEATRE, SOMEHOW I HAD SOME IDEA THAT ACTING WOULD BE AN INTERESTING THING TO DO.

SO I ORIGINALLY WENT TO SCHOOL TO STUDY ACTING, AND YOU KNOW, I WAS VERY DEDICATED TO LEARNING STAGECRAFT.

WHEN I BEGIN WORKING WITH ACTORS, IT BECOMES ALL ABOUT CREATING BEHAVIOR.

THE BULK OF THE PROCESS IS TASKS, AND PARTICULAR KINDS OF CHOREOGRAPHY THAT THEY HAVE TO MASTER, OR A WAY OF SPEAKING THAT THEY HAVE TO MASTER.

IT'S PURE TASK.

MY FAMILY HAD NO INTEREST IN THEATRE.

WHEN I WAS YOUNGER, WE NEVER WENT TO SEE THEATRE.

MY MOTHER WORKED AT THE FAMOUS LITHOGRAPHY STUDIO, GEMINI G.E.L., SO I WAS EXPOSED TO VISUAL ART BEFORE I WAS EXPOSED TO THEATRE.

AND I HAD CONTACT WITH RICHARD SERRA, JASPER JOHNS.

SO ON THE ONE HAND, THERE WAS THIS INTEREST IN THE MEDIUM OF THEATRE, BUT IN IDEAS THAT WERE MORE SITUATED WITHIN THE FINE ARTS.

MY HEAD WAS IN BOTH ARENAS ALL THE TIME.

BECAUSE I CAME FROM THEATRE, I REALLY ENJOYED THE PLEASURE OF THE EYES TO LOOK WHERE THEY WANTED TO LOOK.

IN AN INSTALLATION CONTEXT, THERE'S ACTUALLY OPPORTUNITY FOR DIFFERENT KINDS OF CONTENT TO BE PRESENT IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

AT SOME POINTS, IT'S A DIRECT ENGAGEMENT WITH ONE SINGLE IMAGE.

Man: WAITING FOR A NEW TRAVESTY -- OTHER TIMES, IT'S AN ENGAGEMENT WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT IMAGES ALL COMPETING FOR YOUR ATTENTION.

THE INSTALLATION IN AVIGNON WAS A PRIVATE HOUSE TURNED INTO AN EXHIBITION SPACE.

THERE WERE A LOT OF MIRRORS.

SO AS YOU WALKED THROUGH THAT PARTICULAR SPACE, YOU SAW SCREENS IN FRONT OF YOU, BUT YOU SAW ALSO REFLECTIONS OF SCREENS IN THESE VARIOUS MIRRORS.

THE SPACE HAD A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY FOR DIFFERENT KINDS OF VIGNETTES OF AN OVAL SCREEN TUCKED INTO A CLOSET, OR ANOTHER ROOM WOULD SEEM MORE PRESENTATIONAL, AND HAVE A LOT MORE DECORATIVE DETAIL.

[ Screaming ] Woman: NO!

I'VE ALWAYS LOVED THAT YOU CAN HAVE SO MUCH INFORMATION THAT EXISTS FOR YOU, BUT REALLY SORT OF INVOKES YOUR JUDGMENT ABOUT WHAT YOU LIKE TO LOOK AT.

THE PROJECT FIVE ECONOMIES BEGAN WITH WORK WITH SEVERAL SOURCES, SOME COMING FROM POPULAR FILM, ANOTHER COMING FROM REAL LIFE, AND ANOTHER COMING FROM RESEARCH THAT I WAS DOING ON POPULAR RITUAL.

THE FILM WORKS INCLUDED WHATEVER HAPPENED TO BABY JANE, AN AUSTRALIAN FILM CALLED TIM, THE MIRACLE WORKER -- THE STORY OF HELEN KELLER, THE REAL-LIFE STORY OF A WOMAN NAMED BIRDIE JOE HOAKS, A 25-YEAR-OLD WOMAN WHO TRIED TO PASS AS A 13-YEAR-OLD BOY SO THAT SHE COULD OBTAIN SOCIAL SERVICES IN UTAH, AND ALSO THESE GAMES PLAYED AT WAKES IN IRELAND IN THE 17th AND 18th CENTURY, WAKE AMUSEMENTS, VERY CRUEL AND KIND OF BRUTAL, VIOLENT GAMES.

THESE WERE ALL SOURCES, OR MODELS, WHICH, IN SOME WAY, OR ANOTHER HAD TO DO WITH THIS PARADOX HAVING TO DO WITH PLEASURE AT THE MISFORTUNE OF OTHERS.

THERE'S ONE ACTRESS IN PARTICULAR WHO IS ENGAGED WITH A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF ROLES, AND A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT STYLES.

WHAT BECOMES FASCINATING TO ME IN THAT CASE, IS THIS ONE PERSON CAN ASCEND, TRANSCEND, TRANSFORM, NOT ONLY THROUGH THE ROLES THAT SHE PLAYS, BUT ALSO THROUGH THE STYLES THROUGH WHICH THOSE ROLES ARE FILTERED.

IT WAS MUCH MORE INTERESTING TO ME TO WORK WITH ACTORS THAT DIDN'T NEED THINGS TO BE MOTIVATED BY NARRATIVE.

[ PROVIDING SOUND EFFECTS ] I WAS SO DISGUSTED WITH THE POLITICAL SITUATION THAT I STARTED READING THORSTEIN VEBLEN'S THE THEORY OF THE LEISURE CLASS.

AT THE SAME TIME, I WAS WORKING ON THE MOVEMENT SEQUENCES FOR THE CHITTENDENS.

THESE CHOREOGRAPHIES THAT WERE ALL AUTOMATED BY NUMERALS, BY THESE NUMERICAL SEQUENCES.

IT'S WHAT HAPPENS TO THE MOVEMENT ONCE IT'S IN THIS OFFICE ENVIRONMENT.

WITH THIS ENSEMBLE OF MIDDLE MANAGEMENT TYPES, AND 19th-CENTURY LEISURE CLASS ARCHETYPES.

[ Wailing ] OH!

THERE'S A PLACE IN THE WORK WHERE THE KIND OF AUTOMATION, MECHANIZATION, ET CETERA, THERE'S LIKE A KERNEL OF MINDLESSNESS, WHICH IS MEANT TO BE SCARY, BECAUSE IT'S ARBITRARY.

AAH!

[ Gasp ] OH!

AAH!

UNH.

AAH!

AAH!

HEARTBURN.

AAH!

[ GASPING ] Sullivan: I HOPE THAT THAT POINT IS CONTINUED TO BE MADE WITH THE WORK.

IT'S NOT SO MUCH OF A FRAMING OF THE FIGURE, IT'S THE FIGURE SORT OF IN THE FACE OF SOMETHING GREATER.

IT'S ANOTHER KIND OF HUMANISM, I WOULD SAY.

OFTEN THERE'S A KIND OF EXPERIMENTATION THAT HAPPENS IN TERMS OF WHAT I WANT THE PHOTOGRAPHY TO BE, OR WHAT I'M KIND OF LOOKING FOR.

WHAT I'LL DO IS GO OUT, AND JUST PRACTICE IN DIFFERENT CONDITIONS.

FOR ME, THE CAMERA IS REALLY A SORT OF PREPARATION AND RESEARCH TOOL, SO THAT I HAVE SOMETHING TO DEMONSTRATE TO THE CINEMATOGRAPHER WHAT I WOULD LIKE THE SHOT TO LOOK LIKE.

I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS A LOT, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A GOOD IDEA.

[Laughs] TO -- TO MAKE A WORK THAT HAS TO DO WITH PLACES THAT I'VE NEVER BEEN, AND THINGS THAT I HAVE NO DIRECT CONTACT WITH.

AS A KIND OF FOUNDATION FOR A PROJECT, THAT'S ENORMOUSLY UNSTABLE.

ICE FLOES OF FRANZ JOSEPH LAND BEGAN WITH MY INTEREST IN THE HOSTAGE CRISIS IN MOSCOW IN 2002.

A FACTION OF CHECHEN SEPARATISTS STORMED A MOSCOW THEATER.

THE DIRECTNESS OF THAT CONFLICT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT -- I WOULD FEEL CAPABLE OF TOUCHING ON, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER -- YOU KNOW WHERE THINGS KIND OF START TO FAN OUT... AND IF I CAN SET UP A SITUATION THAT ENGAGES THOSE IDEAS, CERTAINLY.

THAT'S, FOR ME, MORE INTERESTING, AND I THINK -- ALLOWS A KIND OF, MAYBE MORE COMPLICATED POLITICAL DISCUSSION.

I AM THE PRINCESS OF THE ARCTIC SEA.

YOU ARE THE WHORE OF THE ARCTIC SEA!

THE MUSICAL PLAYING ONSTAGE AT THE TIME WAS CALLED NORD-OST.

IT WAS BASED ON A NOVEL FROM THE '40s ABOUT POLAR AVIATION AND THE RUSSIAN ARCTIC.

IN THIS CASE, WE EXTRACTED A SERIES OF PANTOMIMES WHICH CAME FROM THE NOVEL.

THESE PANTOMIMES WERE BRUTAL -- OR MECHANIZED.

IT REQUIRES VERY QUICK TRANSITIONS BETWEEN ONE GESTURE OR ANOTHER.

YOU KNOW, AS THE PERFORMER, YOU MUST GO.

YOU SIMPLY MUST GO FROM A TO B, AND IF C IS THERE, THEN YOU MUST GET THERE EVEN FASTER.

[ LAUGHS ] YOU KNOW IT'S REALLY NOT THAT I'M TRYING TO CREATE THIS SENSE OF SUFFERING.

THE CONTENT ITSELF SUGGESTS OTHER KINDS OF OPPRESSIVE CULTURAL REGIMES THAT I WOULD LIKE THE MOVEMENT TO BE ANALOGOUS TO.

IT REALLY IS IN THIS KIND OF CALCULATION OF CHARACTER, ACTION, SETTING, CONTEXT THAT THE WORK ULTIMATELY HAPPENS.

THIS TROUPE OF ACTORS PANTOMIMING THIS NOVEL THROUGHOUT THE ROOMS OF THIS POLISH AMERICAN SOCIAL HALL IN CHICAGO GENERATED A CONTENT OUTSIDE OF ANYTHING THAT I COULD HAVE INITIALLY CONCEIVED.

AND, TO ME, THAT'S A VERY EXCITING RELATIONSHIP, IS WHEN YOU CAN HAVE THIS -- HEIGHTENED THEATRICAL ACTIVITY, BUT IT CAN ENCOUNTER A SPACE THAT HAS A VERY PARTICULAR RATIONALE.

IN A SENSE, KIND OF GENERATING THEN THAT THIRD THING, WHICH IS -- IS MY ART AND -- AND ISN'T IN SOME WAYS.

THE REAL PURPOSE OF PAINTING IS -- IS TO GIVE PLEASURE.

I MEAN THAT'S REALLY THE -- THE MAIN THING THAT IT'S ABOUT.

I MEAN THERE CAN BE THE STORY, YOU KNOW THERE CAN BE A LOT OF HISTORY BEHIND IT, THERE CAN BE -- BUT WHEN IT, YOU KNOW WHEN IT -- YOU DON'T HAVE TO KNOW ALL OF THOSE THINGS TO -- TO RECEIVE THE PLEASURE FROM A PAINTING.

IT'S LIKE LISTENING TO SOME MUSIC.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO KNOW THE SCORE OF A SYMPHONY IN ORDER TO APPRECIATE THE SYMPHONY.

YOU CAN JUST LISTEN TO THE SOUNDS.

IN NASHVILLE WHEN I WAS GROWING UP, YOU DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING BUT COUNTRY MUSIC ON THE RADIO, AND JUKEBOXES AT THAT TIME, AND I WAS NEVER REALLY INTERESTED IN THAT.

I WAS MORE INTERESTED IN JAZZ.

I WOULD HUNT AROUND LATE AT NIGHT ON THE RADIO TRYING TO FIND A NEW YORK STATION, OR SOMETHING, WHERE I COULD HEAR SOMETHING ELSE.

IT WAS THE MUSIC REALLY THAT WAS MORE INTERESTING FOR ME THAN -- THAN PAINTING, WHICH I'D NEVER SEEN.

SO WHEN I CAME TO NEW YORK, IT WAS THE MUSIC THAT WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

THAT SEEMS OKAY.

YEP.

I WAS PLAYING BOP -- BEBOP.

[Laughs] YOU KNOW I WAS -- CHARLIE PARKER AND ZOOT SIMS, AND I THINK THAT HAD AN INFLUENCE ON MY APPROACH TO PAINTING, BECAUSE YOU PLAYED ON A STRUCTURE, AND YOU LEARNED YOUR INSTRUMENT, AND THEN YOU PLAYED WITHIN THE STRUCTURE.

WELL, THAT SEEMED LIKE A LOGICAL THING TO BEGIN PAINTING THAT WAY.

YOU KNOW, I WOULD LEARN ABOUT PAINT, AND THEN I WOULD LEARN ABOUT WHAT YOU COULD DO WITH THE PAINT.

IN PAINTING, SOMETHING HAS TO LOOK EASY, EVEN THOUGH IT MIGHT NOT BE EASY.

THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF PAINTING, THAT IT HAS TO HAVE THAT FEELING OF -- LIKE IT JUST HAPPENED.

IT USED TO BE WHEN I WAS PLAYING, WE WOULD SAY TUNES, NO ONE USES THE TERM "TUNES" ANYMORE, YOU KNOW, IT'S "SONGS."

SOMEONE IS SINGING SOMETHING, AND TELLING A STORY, AND IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO REPRESENTATIONAL PAINTING WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU TELL A STORY WITH THE PAINT, AND WITH SYMBOLS.

I WASN'T INTERESTED IN PAINTING A NARRATIVE, TELLING A STORY WITH A PAINTING.

I THOUGHT THE PAINTING SHOULD JUST BE ABOUT WHAT IT'S ABOUT, AND NOT ABOUT OTHER THINGS, HA HA.

ONE THING THAT I LEARNED FROM MUSIC THAT I'VE CARRIED OVER TO PAINTING WAS IF YOU ARE AN ENTERTAINER, YOU HAVE TO ENTERTAIN.

I DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT.

THE OTHER WAY WAS TO JUST TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANTED, AND THE AUDIENCE HAD TO COME TO YOU, OR NOT.

AND THAT'S -- THAT WAS MY APPROACH RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING.

I WASN'T GOING TO BE AN ENTERTAINER.

IN ALL OF MY PAINTING, I DISCOVER THINGS.

SOMETIMES I'M SURPRISED AT THE RESULT, BUT I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING.

[ Laughs ] EVEN THOUGH I LET -- EVEN THOUGH I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING.

[ LAUGHS ] ALWAYS, MY APPROACH TENDS TO BE FROM EXPERIMENTS.

I GENERALLY DO A LOT OF TESTS BEFORE I DO PAINTINGS.

TESTS ON PAINTS, TO SEE WHICH IS THE BEST THING TO USE ON A CERTAIN MATERIAL, HOW FASTENING IS GOING TO WORK, HOW THE LIGHT IS GOING TO WORK.

I'M NOT INVOLVED WITH ANY KIND OF ART MOVEMENT OR -- I'M NOT A SCHOLAR, AND I'M NOT A HISTORIAN.

I JUST LOOK AT IT AS SOLVING PROBLEMS, AND WORKING ON THE PAINTING, AND A VISUAL EXPERIENCE.

I DON'T HAVE ANY ASSISTANTS.

I LIKE TO DO IT ALL MYSELF.

I LIKE TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON ALL THE TIME.

IT'S COMING ALONG.

[ Laughs ] WHEN I WAS JUST BEGINNING TO PAINT, I -- I THOUGHT, I HAVE TO BECOME NOT AFRAID OF THE PAINT.

NOT AFRAID OF THE COST OF THE PAINT, YOU KNOW, NOT AFRAID OF WASTING IT, AND I WOULD -- I SMEARED SOME ON MY HAND, AND JUST PUT IT DOWN ON -- JUST -- WASTED SOME PAINT SO TO SPEAK, SO THAT I WOULD NOT BE AFRAID OF IT.

YOU KNOW -- I LIKE TO DO SOMETHING THAT I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW TO DO.

WHEN I FINISH THE PROBLEM, I DON'T HAVE TO GO ON WITH IT.

I'M MORE INTERESTED IN FINDING WHAT ELSE I CAN DO THAT -- THAT'S MORE OF A CHALLENGE FOR ME.

I WOULD NEVER SHOW A PAINTING THAT I DIDN'T FEEL RIGHT ABOUT.

I WOULD NEVER LET IT OUT.

THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A FEW PAINTINGS THAT I'VE DESTROYED THROUGH THE YEARS THAT -- SOME I WISH I HADN'T, BUT IT WASN'T THAT THE PAINTINGS MAYBE WERE NOT GOOD, BUT THEY WEREN'T WHAT I WANTED AT THE MOMENT, AND SO I -- YOU KNOW -- I REJECTED THEM.

BUT USUALLY, I WORK THEM THROUGH SO THAT THEY ARE OKAY.

COULD YOU GET THE HOT SPOTS.

OKAY.

KIND OF MOVE -- MOVE THE HOT SPOTS DOWN, SO THE WALL IS MORE EVEN, AND NOT SO HOT AT THE TOP?

THAT'S EASY.

I WORK WITH REAL LIGHT.

I MEAN, THE LIGHT IS NOT REALLY PAINTED INTO THE PAINTING, IN AN ILLUSIONISTIC WAY, AS YOU WOULD PAINT A LANDSCAPE OR SOMETHING, BUT MY PAINTINGS WORK WITH REAL LIGHT.

IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF DAYLIGHT, OR INCANDESCENT LIGHT, IT'S ALSO THE QUALITY OF THE LIGHT.

BUT SOMETIMES, YOU WANT A SOFTER LIGHT, TO BRING IT ALIVE.

I THINK OF MY PAINTING AS NOT REALLY AS ABSTRACT, BECAUSE I DON'T ABSTRACT FROM ANYTHING.

IT'S INVOLVED WITH REAL VISUAL ASPECTS OF WHAT YOU REALLY ARE LOOKING AT, WHETHER IT'S WOOD OR -- OR YOU SEE THE PAINT AND THE METAL AND HOW IT'S PUT TOGETHER, AND HOW IT WORKS WITH THE WALL, AND HOW IT WORKS WITH THE LIGHT.

I USE REAL LIGHT, AND I USE REAL SURFACE.

I DON'T USE ANY ILLUSION.

IT'S THE REAL THING THAT YOU SEE.

IT'S A REAL EXPERIENCE.

[ LAUGHS ] THE PAINTINGS MOVE OUTWARD, IN A SENSE, AESTHETICALLY.

THEY -- THEY GO OUT INTO THE SPACE OF THE ROOM, AND THEY CERTAINLY INVOLVE THE WALL ITSELF THAT IT'S ON.

WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS REALLY WHAT IT IS.

ANYTHING ELSE WILL DILUTE IT, OR, YOU KNOW, DISTURB IT.

I NEVER THOUGHT OF WHITE AS BEING A COLOR.

WHITE COULD DO THINGS THAT OTHER COLORS COULD NOT DO.

WHITE HAS A TENDENCY TO MAKE THINGS VISIBLE.

YOU CAN SEE MORE OF THE NUANCE.

IT'S BEEN ONLY RECENTLY WHERE I ACTUALLY DID SOME WHITE PAINTINGS -- I MEAN, WHICH I CALL WHITE.

I BEGAN WITH THAT SQUARE IN THE '50s, ACTUALLY, AND I -- SOMEHOW -- IT'S BECOME SO NATURAL TO ME THAT I JUST DON'T THINK OF IT ANY OTHER WAY.

THE SQUARE HAS ALWAYS BEEN, YOU KNOW, JUST AN EQUAL-SIDED SPACE THAT YOU COULD WORK WITH, AND IT DIDN'T HAVE THE FEELING OF A LANDSCAPE, OR YOU KNOW, SOME KIND OF A WINDOW, OR A DOORWAY THAT WE USUALLY ASSOCIATE WITH RECTANGLES.

IT'S JUST A VERY NEUTRAL KIND OF A SPACE.

SOMETIMES AFTER I FINISH A GROUP OF PAINTINGS, I'M NOT SURE WHAT TO DO NEXT.

AND MAYBE I -- HAVE TO WAIT A WHILE, YOU KNOW MAYBE A MONTH OR -- OR SO.

TWO MONTHS -- YOU KNOW I DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, AND THEN SLOWLY THINGS FALL INTO PLACE, AND I TRY A FEW THINGS AND -- AND THEN I REALIZE THAT -- WHAT ELSE COULD BE DONE, AND WHAT INTERESTS ME AT THE MOMENT.

IT'S CALLED PHILADELPHIA PROTO -- WELL, ACTUALLY IT'S CALLED THIRD PHILADELPHIA PROTOTYPE.

THE PANELS ARE NOT REALLY THE PAINTING.

THE PAINTING CONSISTS OF THE TWO WALLS.

THE ORIGINAL SURFACE OF THE PANELS ARE THE SAME, EVEN FROM THE FIRST SHOWING.

THE ONLY THING THAT CHANGES IS THE -- IS THE EDGE, WHICH GOES ONTO THE WALL ITSELF.

SOME OF THE TAPE IS GOING OFF OF THE PANEL ONTO THE WALL, AND OTHERS SEEM TO JUST APPEAR ON THE WALL.

WHICH TELLS YOU THAT IT WAS NOT REALLY THE FIRST TIME IT WAS DONE.

THAT'S DONE ON PURPOSE, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT IT TO BE THE EXACT SAME EACH TIME.

THE LIGHT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT IN THE WAY IT AFFECTS THE PANELS.

IN THE AFTERNOON, LATER, WHEN THE SUN MOVES AROUND TO THIS SIDE THE -- THE PANELS WILL LOOK VERY DIFFERENT.

THE SOFTER LIGHT BRINGS OUT THE NUANCES, AND YOU CAN SEE THE -- THE PANELS HAVE A GLOW, WHICH WOULD BE WIPED OUT IN A STRONG, STRAIGHT-ON LIGHT.

YESTERDAY WAS THE FIRST TIME I EVER ACTUALLY SAW THE SPACE.

IT SHOULD BE A SOFT, QUIET EXPERIENCE.

IT'S NICE TO LOOK AT.

I LIKE IT.

Allora: PASS ME THE VACUUM CLEANER THING AGAIN.

THIS IS DEFINITELY THE SPOT FOR THE TROMBONE.

IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE THAT WITH A THING, WITH A HAND HERE.

AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO EXTEND THE MOUTHPIECE SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY SIT THERE AND PLAY IT.

Calzadilla: THAT'S PERFECT.

CYMBALS.

AND THEN, A TRUMPET OVER THERE.

IT HAS TO GO LIKE UP AND OUT LIKE THAT.

THAT'S GREAT.

THAT'S FUNNY.

[ TROMBONE PLAYS ] LOOK AT THIS ONE HERE, THOUGH, IT ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE A -- IT LOOKS LIKE A GUN.

LIKE A -- WE'LL CUT THIS PART OUT SO YOU CAN GET IN CLOSER, BUT FOR NOW AT LEAST -- PLAY -- PLAY IT THERE TO SEE.

[ FLUTE PLAYS ] YEAH, THAT'S GOOD.

REALLY LOUD.

THAT'S THE TUBA OVER THERE -- YEAH, AND THEN, WE HAVE THIS ONE, AN AWARD TUBA -- WHICH IS IMPORTANT.

HOW DO YOU CALL THIS THING?

THE -- CYMBAL.

THAT'S ALSO GOOD.

SEE IF I CAN GET -- DOWNLOADED.

WHAT WE DO, OFTEN, WITH OUR PROJECTS IS, IT'S KIND OF AN EXCUSE TO RESEARCH SOMETHING.

THIS HERE IS THE SAME THING, LIKE SEE HOW IT IS LIKE THE CANNON -- YEAH.

THAT'S WHAT THOSE OPENINGS ARE FOR.

IT WAS FOR THE WEAPON.

IT'S THIS CHANCE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT SOMETHING IN THE WORLD, AND BE ABLE TO FORMULATE SOME KIND OF RESPONSE.

ALL RIGHT, SO -- THIS WAS THIS ONE ABOUT THE -- THIS WAS NICE, THIS IS ONE ABOUT -- THE SOUNDS FOR THE NEWS NETWORKS, AND WHAT THEY USE TO REPRESENT THEIR COVERAGE OF THE WAR.

NOW WE'RE MAKING, BASICALLY, AN ARCHIVE OF MUSIC OF WAR FROM DIFFERENT TIMES AND PLACES IN THE WORLD.

IT'S CALLED CLAMOR.

IT'S ABOUT MUSIC OF WAR, MUSIC AS A -- AS A SOUND WEAPON.

[ TRUMPET PLAYS ] SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE YOU HAVE A TRUMPET FROM THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR MIXED UP WITH A JAPANESE TUBA.

IT'S, BASICALLY, SOUNDS OF ALL DIFFERENT ERAS, UNTIL TODAY, MAKING THIS MONTAGE THAT IS GOING TO BE PART OF TWO THINGS.

ONE IS GOING TO BE PART OF A SCULPTURE, IN WHICH, BASICALLY, IS GOING TO BE A CONCERT, BUT THE BAND IS GOING TO BE LIVE MUSICIANS, ARE GOING TO BE INSIDE THIS OBJECT, THIS SCULPTURE.

Allora: FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF OUR WORK TOGETHER, WE'RE INTERESTED IN MATERIALS.

WHAT ARE THE MEANINGS THAT ARE CONDUITED BY THE USE OF CERTAIN MATERIALS.

CERTAIN MATERIALS TALK OR SPEAK OF THEIR USAGE, AND HAVE LIKE A PRACTICAL FUNCTION.

BUT YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALSO THIS SYMBOLIC DIMENSION THAT A MATERIAL HAS.

IN THE CASE OF CHALK, WE WERE JUST INTERESTED IN THE MATTER-OF-FACTNESS OF WHAT CHALK IS -- IT IS AT ONCE AN IDEOLOGICAL TOOL, SOMETHING THAT YOU FIND IN THE CLASSROOM.

THAT IS IDEOLOGICAL.

BUT IT'S ALSO A GEOLOGICAL SUBSTANCE.

IT'S -- CHALK IS SOMETHING THAT'S FOUND NATURALLY IN THE EARTH, AND BECAUSE OF ITS NATURE, IT IS EPHEMERAL AND FRAGILE.

THIS IDEA OF MAKING THESE GIGANTIC CHALKS, YOU CAN WRITE BIG WORDS, PHYSICALLY, BUT PERHAPS ALSO SYMBOLICALLY.

OUR IDEA WAS TO PLACE THE CHALK WHERE THE GOVERNMENTAL BUILDINGS OF PERU ARE LOCATED.

EVERY DAY, THEY WOULD ALLOW FOR PROTESTORS TO GO, AND MAKE A KIND OF LAP AROUND THE PLAZA, AND THAT'S YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO PUBLICLY VOICE WHATEVER DEMANDS YOU MIGHT HAVE.

Carajo.

Man: Ladrón.

THE PROTESTORS, THEY REALIZED THAT THIS WAS LIKE ANOTHER WAY TO VOCALIZE, AND TO MAKE VISIBLE THEIR DEMANDS.

PEOPLE WERE WRITING THEY'RE FOR THIS POLITICAL PARTY, AND THEN SOMEONE WOULD CROSS IT OUT, AND WRITE SOMETHING ELSE.

Calzadilla: PEOPLE WRITING DECLARATIONS OF LOVE.

AND IT REALLY BECAME A COMPLEX SORT OF FORUM THAT WAS ALL BEING REGISTERED ON THIS FLOOR.

IT'S NOT LIKE A SCULPTURE THAT HAS ONE END, OR IS ONLY USED IN ONE PARTICULAR WAY.

YOU HAVE ALL THIS MULTIPLICITY OF POSITIONS.

THAT PIECE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO ACTIVELY DISRUPT WHAT ARE THE NORMS OF A PARTICULAR SETTING.

A POLICE SQUAD, THEY ARRESTED THE SCULPTURE.

THEY TOOK ALL THE CHALK, THEY PUT THEM IN A MILITARY TRUCK, AND THEY TOOK THEM AWAY.

IT SHOWS THE LIMITS OF FREE SPEECH IN A SO-CALLED DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY, BUT ALSO TALKS ABOUT SCULPTURE, AND ABOUT HISTORICAL REFERENCES, OR ABOUT THE POETIC DIMENSION.

IT'S LIKE THIS THING THAT COMES FROM -- FROM OTTOMAN MUSIC.

IT'S LIKE THIS -- WE ARGUE, THIS IS I THINK PROBABLY WHAT HAS MADE US THE MOST CLOSE TO EACH OTHER, AND REALLY DEFINES OUR RELATIONSHIP AS A COLLABORATIVE, AND AS -- PERSONALLY, IS OUR FIGHTING.

WE JUST LIKE HAVE -- MADE IT AN ART FORM TO ARGUE WITH EACH OTHER ABOUT EVERYTHING.

BUT IN A WAY THAT'S GOOD, BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF LIKE -- GOING TO BATTLE, BECAUSE FINALLY, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN WE BOTH HAVE, YOU KNOW, GAVE IT OUR BEST WITH EACH OTHER, WE SETTLE ON SOMETHING.

WHAT'S LEFT OVER IS WHAT WE BOTH TRULY AGREE WITH AND TRULY FIND IN COMMON.

AH, BUT IT'S MORE QUESTIONING.

WELL, BUT I MEAN, IT'S THIS CONSTANT ARGUMENT, AND ASKING.

BUT WHY THIS AND NOT THAT.

I MEAN IT'S NOT -- NOT TRIVIAL OR CHILDLIKE.

BUT IT'S CONSTANTLY ARGUING.

OKAY, LET'S JUST TRY THINGS OUT NOW.

THAT'S THE -- THAT'S THE POINT.

AND AT THE END, THOSE THINGS THAT WE BOTH CAN'T ARGUE WITH EACH OTHER ABOUT, ARE THE THINGS THAT WE TEND TO, THEN, YOU KNOW, USE AS STARTING POINTS TO MOVE FORWARD IN SOME PROJECT OF OURS.

[ TRUMPET PLAYS ] HUMOR CAN BE BEAUTIFUL, CAN BE HORRIFIC, CAN BE POLITICAL -- CAN BE POETIC -- BUT IT CAN BE TRANSFORMATIVE.

BUT WHAT I LIKE IS THAT, PHYSICALLY -- AND IT COULD BE CRITICAL.

IT'S A PHYSIOLOGICAL TRANSFORMATION THAT THIS THING THERE STILL HAS AFFECTED YOU.

WE FIND IN EACH OTHER LAUGHING AT THE SAME THING WAS A RECOGNITION THAT WE BOTH IDENTIFY WITH THIS THING.

AND THAT BECAME A WAY FOR US TO FIND THINGS IN COMMON, AND IDENTIFY WITH EACH OTHER.

♫ SOMETIMES, THOUGH, WE SEE THINGS THAT AREN'T LIKE A JOKE, BUT IT'S RATHER JUST THIS SORT OF INCREDIBLE, ABSURD, UNUSUAL JUXTAPOSITION OF SOMETHING THAT JUST SEEMS TOTALLY OUT OF PLACE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, SEEMS PERFECTLY SENSIBLE AND RIGHT.

[ TRUMPET PLAYS ] WE WERE INTERESTED IN THE ACTIVITY THAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE ISLAND OF VIEQUES, WHICH IS OFF THE MAINLAND OF PUERTO RICO, USED AS THIS BOMB TESTING SITE.

THIS WAS FILMED THE WEEK THAT THEY OPENED THE LAND THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY OCCUPIED FOR SIXTY YEARS BY THE MILITARY TO THE POPULATION.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO, THEIR ENTIRE LIVES, THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO GO AROUND THE ENTIRE ISLAND.

SO THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT THIS ENTIRE LAND IS OPEN.

AND IT FELT LIKE SOME SORT OF COMMEMORATIVE SOUND SHOULD ACCOMPANY THAT, BE EMBLEMATIC OF THAT POPULAR STRUGGLE, WHICH IN COMMON TERMS IS USUALLY UNDERSTOOD AS AN ANTHEM.

SO WE LOOKED INTO THE ETYMOLOGY OF THE WORD "ANTHEM" AND WE FIND SOMETHING THAT WE LIKE MUCH MORE, WHICH IS "SOUNDING IN ANSWER."

AND SO WE CALL IT RETURNING A SOUND.

THE ACCELERATION OF THE MOTORCYCLE, AND ALL THE ACCIDENTS IN THE ROADS, THE BUMPS, GENERATED A SCORE, A MUSICAL COMPOSITION THAT WAS COMPLETELY ACCIDENTAL.

IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE THE REACTION OF THAT WORK, AND I REMEMBER THERE WAS ONE PERSON WHO, HE WAS LIKE SCREAMING WHEN THE LAND CAME OPEN, AND HE LIKED THE FACT THAT THE TRUMPET IN A WAY WAS KIND OF LIKE A SCREAM.

[ TRUMPET HOLDS NOTE ] IN VIEQUES IN FACT, WHILE THERE WERE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO HAD ONE THING IN COMMON -- GET THE MILITARY OUT OF VIEQUES -- THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE IN COMPLETE DISAGREEMENT ABOUT EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF THE ISLAND.

AND SO WE, SOMEHOW, WANTED TO MOBILIZE THIS DISCUSSION.

THROUGH THE METAPHOR OF THE DISCUSSION TABLE, WE ARRIVED AT THIS WORK WHICH WE CALL UNDER DISCUSSION.

WE USED THIS PERSON TO TAKE THE DISCUSSION TABLE INTO THE AREAS WHOSE FATE IS UNCERTAIN.

THERE IS SOMETHING IN THAT ANTAGONISM OR TENSION THAT COULD BE UNDERSTOOD ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

WHILE THEIR ACTIONS ARE ABSURD -- LIKE TAKING THE DISCUSSION TABLE OF THE ISLAND, AND MAKING IT A BOAT -- IT'S LIKE A WAY TO CONFRONT SOMETHING WHICH MAY SEEM IN GENERAL OVERWHELMING, AND FINDING A WAY TO OWN IT, AND THEN CONTRIBUTE SOMETHING.

YOU KNOW THAT'S KIND OF THE NATURE OF MAKING ART, IS TO DO THAT, IS TO KIND OF TURN SOMETHING UPSIDE DOWN, AND THEN WHEN YOU SEE IT UPSIDE DOWN, THEN YOU START TO SEE IT COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY, BOTH OF OUR BACKGROUNDS WAS INFORMED BY STUDIES IN THE SCIENCES.

FORMS LIKE GEOLOGY, BIOLOGY, LIGHT, WE LOOK AT THROUGH THE LENS OF AN ARTIST.

OUR SCIENTIFIC INTEREST COMES IN FILTERED, I THINK, THROUGH ABSURDITY, OR PURE NONSENSE.

SWEAT GLANDS SWEAT LANDS WAS ONE OF THE MORE COMPLICATED VIDEO PROJECTS.

Man: Y un flashlight iluminado dentro de una cuerva mientra' el Estado -- COME CHRISTMASTIME, EVERYONE FRIES THEIR PORK.

YOU HAVE TO FRY THAT PORK FOR HOURS WITH YOUR HANDS.

Hay protección -- THAT PIECE OF METAL IN WHICH THE PORK IS FRIED, WE HAD WELDED TO THE BACK WHEEL OF A CAR, WHEN YOU ACCELERATE, AND THE PORK ROTATES.

AND UNDERSTANDING THE LOGIC OF THE SPIT AS A KIND OF CONNECTION BETWEEN THESE TWO SYSTEMS -- THEY HAD A SYMBOLIC DIMENSION.

Como un eco.

Civiliza'o, barbárico.

Qué tiene que ver eso con tráfico?

THE GUY, HE'S NOT REALLY DOING ANYTHING, HE'S JUST SITTING THERE, KIND OF OVERSEEING THIS -- THIS ACTIVITY.

HE'S SMOKING HIMSELF, SO HE'S BEING SMOKED WHILE THE PORK IS BEING SMOKED.

Se cierra como ética -- THIS IS A VERY VIOLENT IMAGE.

I'M INTERESTED IN THAT VIOLENCE OF IT.

I'M INTERESTED IN THE GROTESQUE AND VULGARITY OF IT, BECAUSE I THINK IT SPEAKS TO A KIND OF EXCESSIVE OVERHEATING OF SOCIETY AND VIOLENCE.

Usa lo que no produce, Usa la sobra que sobra, sobra.

Usa la sobra que sobra, sobra, sobra.

SO, JUST TO REITERATE, THEY WERE THE FIRST THING WAS TO USE YOUR INSTRUMENTS TO MAKE A KIND OF ABSTRACT SOUNDS THAT ARE VERY STRONG AND LOUD, LIKE A SIREN OR AN AMBULANCE, OR ANY OTHER KIND OF REFERENCE YOU WANT TO THINK ABOUT.

FOR US, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT, THE IDEA OF HAVING A WORK THAT HAVE ALL THESE CONTRADICTIONS IN ITSELF.

HOW CAN YOU PUT ALL THESE THINGS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER ONE?

WELL, YOU USE GLUE.

YOU USE AN IDEOLOGICAL GLUE.

♫ THIS FRUSTRATION WITH ABSURDITY, THIS NONSENSE, THIS PARADOX, ALL THESE THINGS CONSTITUTE PART OF THE MEANING OF THE WORK.

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