HUMOR IS GOOD FOR WHAT AILS YOU.

THANK YOU, ARISTOTLE, FOR BRINGING US THE THEORY OF THE FOUR HUMORS -- FOUR FLUIDS IN THE BODY -- PHLEGM, BLOOD, YELLOW BILE, AND BLACK BILE.

WHENEVER THESE FLUIDS WERE IMBALANCED, THAT WOULD CAUSE ILLNESS, INSANITY, AND DEATH.

NOW, NORMALLY THE TREATMENT FOR THESE HUMORS IMBALANCING WOULD BE TO BLEED SOMEBODY WITH A LEECH.

NOW, BRUCE, MY FRIEND HERE, IS SUFFERING FROM AN IMBALANCE OF TOO MUCH BLOOD AS HE IS A BLOOD, NOT A CRIP, CORRECT?

NOW, SOME OF THE SYMPTOMS OF HAVING TOO MUCH BLOOD IS AN OVERABUNDANCE OF EMOTION, OF HEART.

TOO MUCH FEELING, TOO MUCH DESIRE, TOO MUCH PASSION, TOO MUCH LOVE.

SO TO BE BLED OF THIS IS SO BENEFICIAL -- TO BE BLED OF ALL OF THIS EMOTION IS LESS TAXING ON THE BODY THAN YOU THINK.

I MEAN, LEECHES ARE, HOWEVER UNPLEASANT THEY MAY SEEM, WERE THE CURE-ALL.

SO THIS IS THE WAY ONE WOULD CURE THIS MALADY IS THROUGH LEECHES, THROUGH BLEEDING.

AND THESE MEDIEVAL MEDICAL TECHNIQUES ARE VALID TODAY AS THEY WERE CENTURIES AGO.

I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

OH, DO YOU THINK THEY MEANT, LIKE, HA-HA?

I THINK THEY MEANT LIKE "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT" HUMOR.

I AM A DOCTOR.

LEAN COMFORTABLY, HOW YOU WOULD DO IT NORMALLY.

YEAH, THAT'S BETTER.

LEGS UP, OH YES, OKAY.

STEADY.

THAT'S PERFECT, THAT IS SO COOL.

THAT IS GREAT.

"THE LAST DAYS OF POMPEII" IS CERTAINLY A PHOTOGRAPHIC SEQUENCE, IT'S DIRECTING A WHOLE HOST OF ACTORS.

IT'S PLACED IN ANOTHER HISTORICAL PERIOD.

IT DEALS WITH ART, THEATRICALITY, AND ESSENTIALLY IT DEALS WITH WHAT I THINK IS OUR PRESENT-DAY SITUATION.

LET'S SEE YOU STANDING, OKAY?

LEAN ON HIM.

OH, IT'S SO PERFECT, DON'T MOVE YET, GUYS.

WE'RE GETTING ANOTHER ONE.

I LOOKED AT LA JOLLA, THE TOWN WAS LAID OUT IN THIS INCREDIBLE BAY, AND I LOOKED AT IT, AND I THOUGHT, OH, IT'S LIKE POMPEII.

IT'S FILLED WITH THESE BEAUTIFUL, AFFLUENT PEOPLE LIVING THE GOOD LIFE ON THE BRINK OF ANNIHILATION.

AND ACROSS CALIFORNIA, WE ARE, ANYWAY.

THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN AMERICA AS THIS GREAT COLONIAL POWER AND ONE OF THE EARLY GREAT COLONIAL POWERS, ROME, WAS EXTREMELY CLEAR TO ME.

I ALWAYS WORK WITH PEOPLE AND OF COURSE, I MAKE USE OF PEOPLE'S CREATIVITY AND THEIR LOOKS, AND THE WAY THEY HANDLE THEMSELVES, THE WAY THEY SPEAK.

BUT I'M REALLY VERY DEFINITIVE ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT I WANT.

I'M KIND OF A DICTATOR.

YOU WANT TO PUT THE HELMET ON ONE MORE TIME?

I HAVE TO HAVE CONSULTATION ON THIS.

I LIKE IT BOTH WAYS, I MAY SHOOT IT BOTH WAYS.

HOW'S THAT?

OKAY?

Man: THAT'S GOOD.

BUT DO IT LIKE THIS, HOLD THIS HAND LIKE THIS.

OKAY, NOW, DON'T FORGET YOUR THUMB, DOWN WITH YOUR THUMB, BILL.

GO!

GO!

GO -- THAT'S GOOD.

GO...GO...GO!

GO -- PERFECT.

I LIKE THAT, I REALLY LIKE THAT.

IT WAS STAGED AT MY FRIEND'S VILLA IN RANCHO SANTA FE, CALIFORNIA.

AND IF ANYONE, I GUESS, IS DANCING ON THE EDGE OF THE BRINK OF DESTRUCTION, I SUPPOSE IT MUST BE RANCHO SANTA FE, LATELY CALLED THE RICHEST COMMUNITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

COME A LITTLE CLOSER.

I MEAN, YOU CAN ALMOST SMELL HER.

YEAH, THAT'S GOOD.

THAT'S GOOD, THAT'S GOOD, THAT'S GOOD.

I'VE GOT THIS, SORT OF, I GUESS, LOVE AFFAIR WITH THE PAST.

WHEN I WAS A KID, I WANTED TO HAVE BEEN AN ANCIENT GREEK.

AND WE'RE TALKING LIKE FIVE YEARS OLD, SIX YEARS -- I WAS FASCINATED WITH THE GREEK MYTHOLOGY.

OH, AND I WAS PASSIONATELY IN LOVE WITH THE SCULPTURES.

I'M FROM NEW YORK ORIGINALLY.

THE METROPOLITAN MUSEUM -- THOSE PATHETIC BROKEN PEOPLE.

THEY'RE SORT OF LIKE A MAUSOLEUM OF CRIPPLES.

WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, I USED TO PLAY HOOKY AND GO TO THE METROPOLITAN AND FEEL UP THE PERSEUS AND ALL THE POOR FELLOWS.

AND, UM, SOMETIMES A GUARD WOULD CATCH ME AND SAY, "DON'T DO THAT!"

I USED TO PLAY WITH PAPER DOLLS ALL THROUGH MY CHILDHOOD.

I CONTINUED THESE LONG, COMPLICATED STORIES, AND I MUST SAY THAT EVEN MUCH LATER WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND NO LONGER PLAYED WITH THESE BUT I STILL HAD THEM, AND ON THE DAYS THAT I WAS VERY DEPRESSED, I'D COME HOME AND I'D PLAY WITH MY PAPER DOLLS.

IT WAS ALMOST LIKE I'D BEEN CAUGHT MASTURBATING OR SOMETHING.

IT WAS LIKE HUMILIATING.

BUT IT WAS SO IMPORTANT, IT LET OUT SO MUCH, YOU KNOW...

SO I JUST, THERE'S A RICHNESS IN THAT, THAT IT CAN DO THAT, THAT KIND OF MAKE-BELIEVE.

WHICH I GUESS IS WHY I RETURN TO THEM.

AND EVEN MY BIG FIGURES ARE, IN A SENSE, CUTOUTS, ONLY THEY'RE BIGGER.

ONE OF MY MAJOR PASSIONS HAS ALWAYS BEEN NARRATIVE, AND I'VE ALWAYS FELT THAT NARRATIVE IS AS MUCH OF A HUMAN NEED AS BREATHING.

WE'RE CONSTANTLY EXPLAINING OURSELVES AND COMMUNICATING IN TERMS OF PUTTING MATERIAL TOGETHER THAT IN SOME WAY HAS ASPECTS OF STORY.

I WOULD DEFINE WHAT I DO, ESSENTIALLY, AS INVENT HISTORIES.

I USED TO HAVE THIS FANTASY WHEN I WAS A KID THAT I WOULD BE THIS INVISIBLE PERSON WHO WOULD BE THERE WHEN KEATS WAS DYING, WHEN MARLOWE GOT KILLED, WHEN CARAVAGGIO WAS SCREWING WITH WHOEVER HE WAS SCREWING.

WHEN ALL OF THESE THINGS WOULD BE HAPPENING, AND I WOULD BE THERE, INVISIBLE, AND I WOULD KNOW EVERYTHING.

IT'S A VERY FAUSTIAN IMAGE, ESPECIALLY FOR KIDS.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE I GOT IT, BUT IT WAS THIS PASSION, AND IT WAS ALWAYS THE PAST.

I USED TO THINK THAT I DIDN'T HAVE A SELF THAT WAS MINE, AND I LITERALLY DECIDED ON BEING AN ACTOR WHEN I DECIDED THAT IF I DON'T HAVE A SELF OF MY OWN, I CAN BORROW OTHER PEOPLE'S.

IT'S SOMETHING WHICH CONTINUED WHEN I STARTED WORKING WITH PERSONA BECAUSE IT WAS A VERY GOOD WAY OF DEALING WITH A LOT OF THE POLITICAL AND SOCIAL ISSUES THAT WERE OF INTEREST TO ME.

AS A YOUNG FEMINIST, I WAS INTERESTED IN WHAT WOULD BE MY MALE SELF, SO I FIGURED, OH, I'LL PUT HAIR ON MY FACE.

THE OTHER POSSIBILITY WAS A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT.

SO I PUT A BEARD ON AND THEN DISCOVERED I WAS A KING -- WHATEVER -- HE BECAME MY POLITICAL SELF.

AND THEN MY MOST GLAMOROUS, WONDERFUL WOMAN'S SELF.

IN THOSE DAYS, A BALLERINA.

AND I HAD TAKEN SOME BALLET LESSONS A NUMBER OF YEARS BEFORE, BUT I REALLY, ESSENTIALLY TAUGHT MYSELF FROM A BOOK, STANDING STILL, WITH A CHAIR, IN MY STUDIO IN FRONT OF A MIRROR.

I ALWAYS TEND TO SEE THE FUNNY SIDES OF THINGS.

THAT'S THE RICHEST EXPERIENCE, IS WHEN IT'S THE LAUGHTER AND IT'S THE TEARS TOGETHER, AND I KNOW THAT SOUNDS VERY JEWISH, AND PERHAPS THAT'S PART OF MY JEWISH -- IT PROBABLY IS.

THE KIND OF HUMOR I WAS BROUGHT UP WITH.

IT'S LIKE, ENDLESS HUMOR IN MY FAMILY LIFE, AND AT THE SAME TIME, OY!

"A HUNDRED BOOTS."

SOMEHOW IT CAME TO ME IN A DREAM.

THEY ARE BLACK BOOTS -- BIG, BLACK BOOTS.

GOT THEM AT THE ARMY-NAVY SURPLUS, AND I PRINTED THEM UP ON POSTCARDS.

AND OVER THE COURSE, IT TURNED OUT FINALLY, OF 2 1/2 YEARS, 51 CARDS WERE MAILED OUT TO ABOUT 1,000 PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD.

NOW, IT IS A PIECE THAT I SAW AS A KIND OF PICTORIAL NOVEL THAT WAS SENT THROUGH THE MAILS, CAME UNANNOUNCED, UNASKED FOR, AND THEN IT CAME IN THE MIDDLE OF PEOPLE'S LIVES.

SO THIS WAS, UM...

THE FIRST ONE THAT SORT OF SET THE STAGE -- "ONE HUNDRED BOOTS FACING THE SEA."

THE NEXT ONE -- I THINK WAS SENT ABOUT THREE WEEKS LATER -- WAS "A HUNDRED BOOTS GO TO CHURCH."

AN ARTIST FRIEND, ALAN SEKULA, TOLD ME RECENTLY THAT ONE OF THE REASONS HE LOVES THIS PIECE SO MUCH IS THAT IT'S OLD CALIFORNIA THAT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE.

THE CHURCH IS GONE, SOME CONDOS THERE.

SOLANA BEACH HAS BECOME CONDO HEAVEN.

AND THEN "100 BOOTS TURN THE CORNER."

THERE'S SOME SORT OF ANGST GOING ON.

THEY WERE DOING SUBURBAN, HAPPY THINGS THEN, NOW SOMETHING'S HAPPENING.

"100 BOOTS TRESPASS."

FIRST CRIME.

THERE THEY ARE.

I CLIMBED INTO THE ELECTRIC COMPANY PUMPS AND STUCK MY BOOTS THERE, AND THE SIGN, AS YOU SEE, SAYS... THREE DAYS LATER, I SENT THE "100 BOOTS ON THE LAM."

AND THIS IS AROUND THE MIDDLE OF THE PIECE.

"100 BOOTS ON THE JOB."

AND THAT'S AT SIGNAL HILL.

WITH THE LITTLE OIL DERRIC.

NEAR, IN L.A., NEAR LONG BEACH.

AND THEN, A FEW WEEKS LATER, "100 BOOTS OUT OF A JOB."

AND THE PLACE WHERE I SHOT THIS, WITH ALL THESE...

AWFUL SMOKESTACKS AND EVERYTHING IS A PLACE IN LONG BEACH CALLED TERMINAL ISLAND.

AND THEN, EVENTUALLY, THE MUSEUM OF MODERN ART ASKED ME TO DO A SHOW THERE, AND I SAID, "WELL, I HAVE TO FINISH THE... YOU KNOW, THE SERIES."

AND THEY SAID, "FINE."

AND I SHOT THE BOOTS IN NEW YORK AS WELL.

THIS IS ONE OF THE NEW YORK PICTURES.

THEY COULD SEE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER OVER THERE.

AND THEN, AFTER IT WAS OVER, THE LAST DAY OF THEIR SHOW, BACK IN CALIFORNIA, I MAILED THIS ONE -- "100 BOOTS GO ON VACATION."

AND THERE YOU SEE THEIR SOLES -- IT'S A BAD JOKE.

SOME OF MY WORK IS JUST DOWNRIGHT OUTRAGEOUS AND FUNNY, OBVIOUSLY, BUT IT PLAYS, EVEN THAT STUFF THAT LOOKS LIKE THE MOST OBVIOUSLY RIDICULOUS, THERE IS, I THINK, A RELATION TO HUMAN EXPERIENCE THAT GIVES IT MORE OF A RICH LAYER.

[ PIANO PLAYING ] I ADORE BALLET IN SOME WAYS, BUT IT IS A TOTALLY RIDICULOUS ART FORM, I MEAN, IT IS SO STUPID.

I LOVE IT BECAUSE IT'S PATHETIC IN ITS WAY, IT'S RIDICULOUS FOR PEOPLE TO WALK AROUND ON STILTS.

UM, IT'S FOOLISH... AND THERE'S SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL AND SAD ABOUT IT AND VERY MORTAL, IN A WAY.

I FORGOT WHICH ONE OF THE MALE DANCERS WAS EXPLAINING BALLET ON TELEVISION.

AND THERE'S A BALLERINA AND HE TAKES HER BY HER CROTCH LIKE THIS AND HOLDS HER HAND LIKE THIS, AND HE SAYS, "I DON'T KNOW WHAT SOME PEOPLE WOULD CALL THIS, BUT I CALL IT ART."

AND SEX-- THIS SORT OF SEX AND BALLET ARE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, VERY CLOSE, ALSO IN THE WAY THAT ROMANTICISM AND SEX ARE.

SO, UM...

I'M OBVIOUSLY POKING FUN AT THAT ASPECT OF IT.

HE WAS IN COLLEGE WHEN HE WAS 15.

BUT HE'S DIFFERENT, I'VE NEVER KNOWN ANYBODY LIKE HIM, EVER.

AND VENTURE TO SAY THAT I PROBABLY NEVER WILL.

MOST OF HIS ART IS, UH, ACTUALLY WRITING.

Pettibon: I SPEND A LOT MORE TIME WRITING THAN I DO DRAWING AND I REALLY WANTED TO MAKE THAT DISTINCTION AND FEEL THE NEED TO SEPARATE THE TWO.

THE FACT IS, I MAKE WORK THAT REQUIRES BOTH.

ALL THOSE BOOKS DOWNSTAIRS, THE THOUSANDS WE HAVE, HE READS THOSE ALL THE TIME.

HE LOVES TO FIND BOOKS THAT ARE UNDERLINED OR HIGHLIGHTED BECAUSE -- ESPECIALLY, THOSE PEOPLE MIGHT NOT EVEN BE ALIVE ANYMORE, SO IT'S LIKE HE GETS TO KIND OF SHADOW AND FIND OUT WHAT WAS INTERESTING TO THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE GONE BEFORE HIM.

Pettibon: MY WRITING IS ASSOCIATIONAL.

YOU DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO WHILE YOU'RE DOING IT.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE COMMENT THAT THERE'S SUCH A DISPARITY BETWEEN THE IMAGE AND THE WORDS.

IT MIRRORS THE WAY I WORK OVERALL, QUITE A BIT.

Devore: I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY HE'S A SLOB, BUT THAT'S THE WAY HE WORKS, AND I BELIEVE HE HAS TO HAVE HIS STUFF AROUND HIM LIKE THAT TO BE ABLE TO WORK.

THAT LOOKS NORMAL FOR HIM.

BUT IT'S JUST HYSTERICAL TO ME THAT IN HIS MIND, HE FELT HE WOULD NOT MAKE A MESS AT ALL.

HE'S ECCENTRIC AT TIMES, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY.

I HAVE A SPECIAL PLACE IN MY HEART FOR HIM, I JUST THINK HE'S A GREAT GUY.

Pettibon: THIS IS GOING TO BE A COUP, ACTUALLY, SEEING ME, UH... FIRST...

THE FIRST ON-RECORD CASE OF ME ACTUALLY ARRANGING OR KIND OF CLEANING UP THE PLACE.

IT CAN'T BE A DOCUMENTARY, THOUGH.

BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE IT.

HE JUST HAS A REALLY BROAD RANGE OF THINGS THAT INTEREST HIM, AND IT CAN BE EROTIC TO A BOWL OF FRUIT.

A MIND THAT CAN DO THAT KIND OF BROAD SPECTRUM, ARTISTICALLY, HAS TO BE KIND OF BUSY WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

IT'S A THINKING PERSON'S ART, ISN'T IT TRUE?

IT'S NOT JUST DRAWING PRETTY PICTURES.

HE HAS ALL HIS IDEAS.

Pettibon: THE WAY I THINK AND THE WAY I TALK AND THE WAY I WRITE, IT'S NOT VERY DIRECT ALWAYS, IT CAN LEAD ANYWHERE.

I WANT IT TO BE AS FLUENT AS POSSIBLE.

I MEAN, THAT'S A MAJOR PART OF MY WORK.

ALMOST LIKE AN ATHLETE WOULD EXERCISE HIS MUSCLES AND DO THE SAME MOVES AND GET TO A POINT WHERE IT BECOMES ALMOST INSTINCTIVE.

EVEN THOUGH MY WORK IS USUALLY JUST ONE DRAWING, IT IS MORE OF A NARRATIVE THAN IT IS A CARTOON WITH A PUNCHLINE AND A RESOLUTION OF... AND A LAUGH AT THE END.

THERE STILL IS AN ELEMENT OF CARICATURE IN CARTOONS THAT MY WORK RETAINS.

GUMBY REPRESENTS AN ALTER EGO FOR MY WORK AS AN ARTIST.

THERE'S ACTUALLY A LOT MORE TO THAT FIGURE THAN JUST 98 OUNCES OF CLAY OR WHATEVER.

IN SOME OF HIS CARTOONS, HE GOES INTO A BIOGRAPHY OR HISTORICAL BOOK AND HE INTERACTS WITH REAL FIGURES FROM THE PAST.

AND I TEND TO DO THAT IN MY WORK AND IN MY VIDEOS AS WELL.

YOU KNOW WHO, FOR ME, DOES MORE THAN GUMBY WOULD BE VAVOOM.

WHEN I'M DOING DRAWINGS OF VAVOOM, PUTTING HIM IN THIS EPIC, SUBLIME, ROMANTIC LANDSCAPE, AND HE IS THIS LITTLE, LITTLE GUY WITH A BOOMING VOICE.

I CONSIDER CHARACTERS LIKE GUMBY OR VAVOOM, FELIX THE CAT, WITH RESPECT, COMPARED TO, YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES...

THIS ONE OR ANY ONE, YOU KNOW, REALLY.

AND THOSE ARE THE REAL CARTOON FIGURES.

AND THOSE ARE THE REAL RIDICULOUS FIGURES, YOU KNOW?

THERE'S A VERY DIRECT, I GUESS, KIND OF ANGER IN SOME OF MY WORK.

THE PRETENTIOUS, THE POWERFUL, DECADENT, UH, CORRUPT -- THOSE WOULD TEND TO BE PEOPLE WHO I DON'T RESPECT AT ALL.

IT'S A WAY OF TRYING TO BREAK DOWN THIS KIND OF NATURAL AWE OF HEROES THAT COMES OUT OF SORT OF FEAR AND ENVY.

I'VE NEVER CONSIDERED MYSELF MUCH OF A POLITICAL ARTIST.

AND MOST OF MY ART DOESN'T REALLY DEAL IN SUPPOSEDLY POLITICAL ISSUES.

BUT YOU KNOW I'M NOT GOING TO APOLOGIZE OR SHY AWAY FROM IT ANY MORE THAN ANY OTHER SUBJECT.

DADDY, YOU NEVER TAUGHT ME THE FACTS OF LIFE.

YOU NEVER READ ME MARX.

I GREW UP NOT KNOWING WHAT A WORKER IS AND WHAT THEY DO.

LOOK AT ME NOW, DADDY.

LOOK AT YOUR LITTLE DAUGHTER.

I'M OUT OF THE CLOSET FOR GOOD, THE BLINDFOLD IS PEELED OFF FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE.

Pettibon: PATTY HEARST AND THE SLA, IT WOULD REALLY BE IMPOSSIBLE, I WOULD THINK, FOR ME ANYWAY, TO NOT TREAT IT WITH A BROAD COMIC ASPECT TO IT, BECAUSE THE WHOLE SITUATION WAS SUCH A BROAD BURLESQUE.

AND LIKE A LOT OF THE BEST HUMOR, WHETHER IT'S THE THREE STOOGES, OR MOLIERE, IT'S ABOUT SOMEONE WHO IS REALLY STRIDENT OR PRETENTIOUS.

AND A LOT OF POLITICAL GROUPS FROM THE '60s, '70s, WERE FULL OF THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

IT'S HARD TO TAKE THAT SORT OF THING SERIOUSLY, IF YOU CAN SEE IT FROM ANY HISTORICAL DISTANCE.

IF I'M GOING TO BE CONDEMNED FOR BROACHING THAT SUBJECT FROM A COMIC ANGLE, THAT IS COMPLETELY ABSURD.

TO DEMONIZE THEM, IN PARTICULAR, WHEN YOU HAD A WAR GOING ON THAT WAS KILLING MILLIONS, I MEAN, IT'S A WAY FOR ME TO OBJECTIFY THE LINES THERE, TO EVEN THE PLAYING FIELD A LITTLE BIT, RATHER THAN PICKING ONE ENEMY AND DEMONIZING THEM TO BASICALLY COVER YOUR OWN ASS.

NOW, IF YOU COULD GET ME ON CAMERA DOING A STRAIGHT LINE, THAT WOULD ALSO BE A HISTORIC SHOT.

BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, YOU KNOW.

HMM.

IF YOU DO LOOK AT MY WORKS -- "BASEBALL," FOR INSTANCE -- THERE IS A LARGER-THAN-LIFE ATTITUDE TO A LOT OF IT.

NOT ALL THE WORKS ARE PURE ADULATION OF THE BALLPLAYERS.

BASEBALL HAS PROBABLY BEEN MY FAVORITE SINCE I WAS A CHILD.

THE REASON WHY I KEEP COMING BACK TO CERTAIN IMAGES IS PROBABLY MOST OFTEN THERE'S A VISUAL QUALITY THAT WORKS FOR ME.

WHETHER YOU'RE THROWING THE PITCH OR BATTING THE BALL, YOU DO HAVE THAT SENSE OF THE MOVEMENT, AND FOR AN ARTIST LIKE MYSELF WHOSE WORK IS THAT ONE MOMENT, THAT CAN BE IMPORTANT.

MY WORK ON A SUBJECT DOES SAY A LOT ABOUT WHAT GOES ON OFF THE FIELD AS WELL.

ABOUT THE SOCIETY IN GENERAL -- IT'S KIND OF A MICROCOSM FOR...

THE SOCIETY AS A WHOLE.

HE'D DRAW US A TRAIN, AND IT CAN GIVE YOU MAYBE A HUNDRED STORIES, JUST LOOKING AT THE TRAIN.

I THINK TRAINS IN MY WORK ARE PARTICULARLY AMERICAN.

IN THIS COUNTRY, WE STILL HAD VAST FRONTIERS LEFT.

IT WAS ABOUT BRINGING THE SHORES TOGETHER.

ABOUT GOING WEST.

AND -- EVEN WHEN I WAS A KID, YOU KNOW, WHEN I HEARD THE TRAIN AT NIGHT, IT WAS LIKE THE EQUIVALENT OF RUNNING OFF AND JOINING THE CIRCUS, I GUESS.

EVERY AMERICAN KID KIND OF HAD THAT SOMEWHERE IN HIS MIND, KIND OF EMBEDDED.

BEYOND THAT, IT'S AN IMAGE THAT WORKSELL FOR THE KIND OF DRAWINGS I DO.

WHAT YOU SEE IS THESE MOTIFS THAT KEEP RECURRING IN MY WORK.

THEY STARTED AS ONE IMAGE AND, FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEY DID HAVE THIS KIND OF RESONANCE TO ME THAT BROUGHT THEM BACK.

AND SOME OF THEM, YOU KNOW, HAVE HAD A FAIRLY LONG LIFE.

THERE IS A KIND OF STRAIN IN MY WORK OF WHAT IS USUALLY DESCRIBED AS LIKE A FILM NOIR.

THERE PROBABLY IS MORE FAILURE DEPICTED IN MY WORK THAN THERE IS SUCCESS.

Devore: I FIND A LOT OF HUMOR IN HIS WORK.

BECAUSE THE WORLD'S KIND OF SCARY SOMETIMES AND HE TENDS TO BE ABLE TO MAKE SOME OF THE MOST HORRIBLE THINGS FUNNY, YOU KNOW?

I MEAN, I MEAN, HE'S JUST, FLAT-OUT, HE'LL PUT IT DOWN ON PAPER AND THEN WRITE SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND YOU CAN'T HELP BUT LAUGH.

Pettibon: I DON'T LIKE MY HUMOR TO BE IN THE SERVICE OF MAKING FUN OF PEOPLE BASED ON SUPERFICIALITIES.

JUST FOR THE SAKE OF GOING FOR SOME CHEAP LAUGH.

I WON'T DO THAT IF IT HURTS SOMEONE, IF IT'S BASED ON THINGS THAT PEOPLE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER OR, YOU KNOW, WE AS HUMANS STILL SO OFTENTIMES FEEL THE NEED TO HAVE SOMEONE TO PICK ON, YOU KNOW.

ART CAN BE A KIND OF THERAPEUTIC OR KIND OF A FANTASY LIFE OR WISH FULFILLMENT OR CREATING THIS ALTERNATE UNIVERSE.

ART, TO ME, GIVES ME THE EEDOM TO DO THAT.

I DON'T FEEL CONSTRAINED BY SUBJECT MATTER OR SO MANY THINGS.

I MEAN, I WELCOME PRACTICALLY, YOU KNOW, ANYTHING INTO THE DRAWING.

I THINK IT'S WORK THAT IS BEST WHEN THERE ISN'T ANY FINAL RESOLUTION.

WHEN YOU DON'T ARRIVE.

Murray: THE WHOLE THING IS SO SCATOLOGICAL.

WHEN YOU'RE PAINTING, IT'S LIKE SO PHYSICAL, IT'S REALLY PHYSICAL.

YOU'RE SQUEEZING THE PAINT OUT OF THE TUBE, WHICH IS FUN.

YOU'RE MIXING UP THE PAINT.

IT'S MAKING SOMETHING HAPPEN WITH A VERY SORT OF FLUID MATERIAL THAT IS CONSTANTLY SOMEWHAT OUT OF CONTROL.

HARNESSING IT SOMEHOW, HARNESSING THAT ENERGY OF THE PAINT.

I THINK THAT'S THE PRIMARY THING THAT PAINTING IS ABOUT.

FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH CUTTING OUT SHAPES AND KIND OF GLOMMING THEM TOGETHER.

YOU KNOW, LIKE BASICALLY MAKING A ZIGZAG SHAPE AND MAKING A SORT OF A RECTANGULAR SHAPE AND A CIRCULAR, LOOPY, FAT, CLOUDY SHAPE AND JUST PUTTING THEM ALL TOGETHER AND SORT OF LETTING THE CARDS FALL WHERE THEY MAY.

I KNOW THE SHAPES ARE ALWAYS REFERRED TO AS CARTOONY, AND THEY ARE CARTOONY AND LUMPY AND ROUNDED AND INFLATED AND SORT OF WACKY.

ALL OF THESE SHAPES ARE STUCK ONTO EACH OTHER IN SOME KIND OF WAY.

SORT OF LIKE A WEIRD FENCE OR A WEIRD LATTICE.

ANOTHER PART OF IT, FOR ME, WAS TO USE VERY INTENSE COLOR.

WITH THE COLOR AND WITH THE SHAPE AND WITH THE DRAWING INSIDE OF THE SHAPE, REALLY, IT'S JUST SIMPLY TRYING TO MAKE IT WORK SOMEHOW.

THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS OF THINGS, IT'S LIKE BEING A SAFE BREAKER AND YOU'RE LISTENING TO -- THOSE MOVIES WHERE THEY'VE GOT THEIR EAR UP AGAINST THE SAFE AND YOU'RE LISTENING FOR THE RIGHT CLICK, FOR THE RIGHT CYLINDERS TO LIKE DROP DOWN.

AND SOMETIMES IT'S FELT REALLY LIKE THAT, LIKE I'M JUST LIKE PAINTING AND PAINTING AND PAINTING UNTIL THE RIGHT THING HAPPENS.

I WANT THERE TO BE CONFLICT AND I WANT THERE TO BE TENSION.

AND YET, SOMEHOW I WANT TO MAKE THESE VERY CONFLICTING THINGS LIVE TOGETHER AND NOT JUST BUTT UP AGAINST EACH OTHER, BUT REALLY LIVE TOGETHER.

I DO DRAWINGS INSIDE THE BOOK.

AND THEY'RE JUST KIND OF LIKE WARM-UP TO GET MY MIND INTO IT, YOU KNOW, LIKE TO GIVE MYSELF SOME PLACE TO START FROM.

THAT'S REALLY ALL THEY ARE.

IT ALL STARTS WITH DRAWING.

I THINK THE THING I REMEMBER THE MOST WHEN I WAS LITTLE WAS THE EXCITEMENT OF BEING ABLE TO DRAW SOMETHING.

I LOVED TO DRAW AND I DID IT OBSESSIVELY.

AND I GUESS I KIND OF REALIZED IT WAS A SKILL THAT MADE ME FEEL GOOD ABOUT MYSELF.

THE ART INSTITUTE IN CHICAGO TOTALLY CHANGED MY LIFE.

AND THERE WERE PEOPLE THERE THE LIKES OF WHOM I HAD NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN LITTLE BLOOMINGTON, ILLINOIS.

I ABSOLUTELY FELL IN LOVE WITH THAT WORLD.

I THINK AS MUCH AS I WANTED TO BE AN ARTIST, I WANTED TO BE DIFFERENT THE WAY THEY WERE DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT FELT LIKE FREEDOM.

INSTEAD OF BEING TRAPPED IN YOUR LITTLE PENDLETON SKIRT AND YOUR BOBBY SOCKS AND YOUR SADDLE SHOES, YOU COULD WEAR BIG HEAVY BLACK BOOTS AND PUT BLUE MAKEUP ON AND JUST, YOU KNOW, AND SAY WHAT YOU THOUGHT, YOU KNOW.

YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO BE A NICE LADY ANYMORE.

BUT THE TEACHERS SEEMED TO BE THERE TO TEACH YOU THAT YOU HAD NO HOPES AND NO PROSPECTS AND BEING AN ARTIST WAS ONE OF THE MOST IMPOSSIBLE THINGS IN THE WORLD.

AND YOU'D BETTER REALIZE THAT THIS WAS A LIFE OF SUFFERING, STRUGGLE, AND YOU WEREN'T GOING TO BE ANY GOOD ANYWAY.

I HAD TO REALLY FIND A WAY TO BELIEVE IN MYSELF.

YOU KNOW, I THINK I DID IT BY LOOKING AT THE PAINTINGS IN THE GALLERIES IN CHICAGO.

I WOULD GO EVERY DAY AND I WOULD LOOK AT THIS PARTICULAR DE KOONING PAINTING CALLED "EXCAVATION" AND I WOULD ALMOST LIKE DO A DANCE WITH IT.

LIKE, OH, HE WENT THIS WAY AND OH, HE WENT THAT WAY AND OH, HE SMUDGED THIS.

AND FEELING LIKE THE DEPTH OF THAT PAINTING, WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT FROM A DISTANCE, IT LOOKS LIKE THIS ROILING, BOILING POT OF PAINT, KIND OF.

EXCEPT THE ORDER IS IN THAT PAINT.

AND WHEN YOU GO UP TO IT, YOU BEGIN TO SEE LIKE THE LAYERS OF IT.

AND I SORT OF DECONSTRUCTED THE PAINTING AND I WOULD GO BACK DOWN TO MY PAINTING AND I WOULD LIKE, TRY TO DO IT.

I NEVER GOT THAT GOOD, BUT IT MADE ME START TO FEEL MY BODY AND MY MIND.

MY MIND LETTING MY ARM MAKE THE DECISION.

AND WHEN YOU START TO GET THE CONTROL, THEN YOUR FEELINGS CAN START TO FLOW.

AND ONCE THAT STARTS TO HAPPEN, YOU KNOW, YOU GET ON THE TRACK AND THE TRAIN STARTS MOVING.

I JUST REALIZED THIS WAS GOING TO BE MY LIFE.

I REALLY NEED TIME BY MYSELF AND I ALWAYS HAVE.

AND I THINK WHEN I WAS A KID, I ACTUALLY LIKED TO PLAY BY MYSELF A LOT.

AND THAT'S NOT SAYING I DON'T NEED PEOPLE, BECAUSE I DO.

I LOVE THE QUIET OF WALKING INTO MY STUDIO AND LOOKING AT MY WORK AND THEN PAINTING AND IT JUST FEELS LIKE OF A PIECE WITH MY WHOLE LIFE, IN A WAY.

HAVING MY KIDS HAS MADE ME PART OF THE WORLD AS AN ARTIST AND AS SOMEBODY WHO WORKS IN A LOT OF ISOLATION.

IT'S REALLY MADE ME DEAL WITH LIFE IN A WAY THAT I ABSOLUTELY WOULDN'T HAVE.

IT'S MADE ME HAVE A LIFE AND TAKE MY MIND OFF MYSELF.

THAT'S WHAT THEY'VE DONE FOR ME.

THEY'LL BE MORE HONEST WITH ME THAN ANYBODY ELSE WILL.

THEY'LL TELL ME HOW THEY FEEL.

AND NOT EVERYBODY DOES THAT.

WHICH ONE DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT?

DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS ONE?

THIS ONE, YEAH.

SO WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS -- I'M TRYING TO DECIDE WHETHER TO PUT THIS IN THE SHOW.

AND I WANT TO KNOW, JUST TELL ME EXACTLY WHAT YOU THINK OF IT.

I KIND OF THINK I REALLY LIKE IT.

Murray: I JUST MADE SOME BIG CHANGES IN IT.

THE DRAWINGS ARE DIFFERENT, BUT THIS IS WHAT SORT OF COME OUT FROM THE DRAWINGS.

I LIKE IT.

AND I THINK THAT IF YOU -- OF COURSE, WHAT I WANTED YOU TO SAY WAS, "IT'S GREAT, IT'S GOOD, DON'T TOUCH IT.

PUT IT IN THE SHOW."

BUT, MOM, EVEN IF YOU COULDN'T, EVEN IF YOU WERE GOING TO LEAVE EVERYTHING THE WAY IT WAS, YOU COULDN'T BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE NOTHING EXCEPT FOR THAT AND THE CHAIR AND THE DOOR.

IT'S NOTHING -- AND THE SUN -- NONE OF IT IS DONE.

I THINK.

I THINK THAT IT ALL JUST -- WHICH ISN'T A BAD THING, I MEAN, YOU JUST -- THE SURFACES AREN'T FINISHED.

ARE YOU BORED WITH IT?

NO, I'M VERY INTERESTED IN IT.

BECAUSE YOU DON'T EVER LEAVE THINGS LIKE THIS, MOM.

I'M GOING TO JUST KEEP WORKING ON IT.

BUT MAYBE THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING, JUST LEAVING IT.

NO, I CAN'T DO THAT.

DAISY'S RIGHT.

YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT.

I THINK WHAT I HAVE TO DO IS TAKE OUT THE BLOOPY FORMS AND RE-- AND JUST, MAYBE THEY'LL COME BACK AND MAYBE THEY WON'T.

I THINK I GOT TO TAKE THESE OUT FOR A WHILE.

AND LOOK AT THAT SPACE AGAIN.

IT MIGHT JUST BE NICE TO SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN IT'S JUST -- YOU KNOW, BLANK.

IT MIGHT BE THAT THEY'RE TOO MUCH LIKE THE CURVES IN THE SMOKE.

OH, YEAH.

I LOVE THE SMOKE.

I THINK THE SMOKE'S MY FAVORITE THING.

I THINK THIS RED AND THE PINK.

Murray: BUT WHAT ABOUT LIKE THE MARKS INSIDE THE ROOFTOPS, THE TRIANGLES?

IT JUST FEELS LIKE IT'S VERY DESCRIPTIVE.

YOU KNOW, THE TRIANGLE THEN BECOMES THE ROOF.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

BUT THE TRIANGLE IS THE ROOF.

YEAH, RIGHT.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

THAT'S THE CHIMNEY, THAT'S THE SMOKE COMING OUT.

YOU KNOW?

THE LITTLE PEOPLE INSIDE.

BE QUIET, BE QUIET.

OF COURSE, THERE'S ROOM FOR INTERPRETATION.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT YOUR WORK DOES, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S LITTLE PEOPLE INSIDE AND THEY'RE TALKING.

AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

OH, THE LITTLE CARTOON -- SPEECH BUBBLES.

OH!

OKAY.

Daisy: I THOUGHT IT WAS A PATH.

OH!

IT COULD BE A PATH.

SEE, MOM?

WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.

OKAY, THAT'S REALLY GOOD, THAT'S REALLY HELPFUL.

YOU KNOW, I THINK EVERY ARTIST HAS THIS.

YOU LEAVE IT AT NIGHT AND YOU COME BACK AND YOU THINK, WOW, I'VE GOT IT, I'VE GOT IT.

AND THEN YOU COME BACK IN THE MORNING AND IT'S GONE, LIKE IT LOOKS AWFUL.

AND THAT'S SORT OF WHEN I THINK, "WHY DID I GO ON THIS JOURNEY IN THE FIRST PLACE?"

YOU KNOW, LIKE WHAT AM I DOING THIS FOR?

IT JUST -- IT'S SO PAINFUL.

THEN, YOU KNOW, THE NEXT MORNING, YOU'RE BACK AT IT, BRIGHT-EYED AND BUSHY-TAILED, LIKE TRYING AGAIN.

OKAY.

SO -- LET'S MOVE THIS PAINTING OVER HERE.

NO, DON'T EVEN HANG IT UP.

MY FANTASY WAS THAT I WOULD GET TO A CERTAIN POINT AND I WOULD KNOW WHAT I WANTED TO SAY AND THEN IT WAS -- YOU WERE ON THIS STRAIGHT AND NARROW ROAD AND YOU WOULD NEVER SWERVE, YOU WOULD JUST DO YOUR WORK THEN.

AND THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT IS AT ALL.

YOU, LIKE, GET OFF THE PATH AND THEN GET BACK ON AGAIN FOR A WHILE AND YOU TRIP ALONG AND THEN SUDDENLY YOU STUMBLE AND YOU'RE BACK ON AGAIN.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT PROCESS EVER ENDS.

MORE OVER TO THE RIGHT.

CENTER IT ON THE WALL.

LET'S SWITCH THIS WITH THIS.

WHEN I REALLY KNOW CERTAIN THINGS ARE WORKING FOR ME, THEY MAKE ME LAUGH.

LIKE OH, THIS IS REALLY SILLY.

AND I JUST ENJOY THAT.

[ Clank ] CAREFUL.

AND I THINK FOR MYSELF IT'S PART OF WHAT GETS ME THROUGH.

I THINK IT'S REALLY VERY SIMILAR TO HOW A KID PLAYS.

YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE YOU'RE IN YOUR PLAYROOM AND YOU'RE JUST PICKING UP THESE DIFFERENT SHAPES AND THROWING THEM ON THE WALL.

AND THEN PUTTING THEM TOGETHER AND SEEING WHAT KIND OF A GAME YOU CAN MAKE OUT OF THEM.

I THINK THAT'S PRETTY EXPLANATORY OF WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO MAKE THEM.

AND VERY CLOSE TO THE KIND OF FEELING THAT I WANT TO GET OUT OF THEM, AND I THINK THAT I WANT YOU TO GET OUT OF THEM, TOO.

I STARTED OUT JUST PAINTING THESE THINGS THAT LOOKED LIKE AUDUBONS -- THEY WERE LIKE FAKE AUDUBONS, BUT I TWISTED THE SUBJECT MATTER A BIT AND GOT INSIDE HIS HEAD AND TRIED TO PAINT IT AS IF IT WAS REALLY HIS TORTURED SOUL, AS IF HIS HAND BETRAYED HIM AND HE PAINTED WHAT HE DIDN'T WANT TO EXPOSE ABOUT HIMSELF.

SO I DID START DOING THOSE.

AND IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME THEN TO MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE AUDUBONS, TO MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE THEY WERE A HUNDRED YEARS OLD, TO MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE HE PAINTED THEM BUT THAT THEY ESCAPED OUT OF HIM WITHOUT -- YOU KNOW, ALMOST LIKE "THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY," BUT, YOU KNOW, A NATURAL HISTORY IMAGE.

THE WHOLE PRINT PROJECT SEEMED LIKE THE NATURAL FRUITION OF ALL THE OTHER STUFF THAT I DO.

LOOK AT THAT!

THAT'S GOOD.

BEAUTEOUS.

ALL THE FOLIOS OF NATURAL HISTORY PRINTS STARTED OUT AS WATERCOLORS THAT WERE DONE IN A FIELD OR DONE FROM NATURE AND THEY ENDED UP AS PRINTS THAT WERE BOUND AND SOLD BY SUBSCRIPTION.

AND IT MAKES SENSE TO MAKE THEM THE WAY THAT PETER AND I MAKE THEM.

Peter: WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THESE PRINTS FOR OVER FIVE YEARS, AND THE IDEA OF DOING THE PRINTS IN THIS SIZE WAS THAT WE WANTED, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, TO MIMIC THE AUDUBON DOUBLE FOLIO "BIRDS OF AMERICA" BOOK.

AND WE WANTED TO WORK IN SOME OF THOSE SAME TECHNIQUES THAT AUDUBON WOULD HAVE USED TO MAKE THOSE PRINTS.

ALL OF OUR PRINTS ARE DONE WITH SIX OR SEVEN PLATES AND SEPARATE COLORS ON EVERY PLATE AND PROBABLY MUCH MORE SATURATED COLOR THAN AUDUBON WOULD HAVE EVER USED.

THAT'S A PART, I THINK, OF WALTON'S WAY OF PICKING UP WHAT AUDUBON DID BUT ALSO CHANGING IT AND DISTORTING IT A LITTLE BIT, KIND OF TURNING UP THE IRONY A LITTLE BIT.

WOW.

THAT WAS GOOD.

YEAH, THAT'S JUICY.

PSYCHEDELIC.

THIS LOOKS COOL.

THE REGISTRATION LOOKS PRETTY GOOD.

THAT'S GOOD, YEAH, THAT'S ENCOURAGING.

BECAUSE THAT'S STARTING TO, WE'RE STARTING TO GET THE FEEL OF IT, I THINK.

IT'S A PRETTY NICE PRINT.

LIKE GENERALLY, JUST FOR -- THAT BLUE IS REALLY MORE INTENSE, ISN'T IT?

YEAH, IT'S NICE.

DIG IT.

I LIKE IT.

YEAH, THAT'S IT.

WHEN I WAS A LITTLE KID, I LOVED TO DRAW.

AND I WAS A LITTLE KIND OF AMATEUR NATURALIST, IDENTIFYING BIRDS AND CATCHING SNAKES AND KEEPING WEIRD PETS.

THIS MUSEUM WAS LIKE HEAVEN TO ME.

I THINK THAT THE DIORAMAS HERE ARE WORKS OF ART.

FOR AN ARTIST, IT WAS REALLY GREAT THAT THOSE ANIMALS DIDN'T MOVE, I COULD LOOK AT THEM, IN A WAY THAT YOU CAN'T LOOK AT ANIMALS IN THE ZOO OR ANIMALS ON NATURE SHOWS.

I COULD REALLY SEE HOW THEY WERE PUT TOGETHER.

PASSENGER PIGEONS WERE THE MOST NUMEROUS BIRD ON THE PLANET EARTH.

A SINGLE FLOCK COULD HAVE TWO BILLION BIRDS IN IT.

THERE WERE SUCH HUGE NUMBERS OF THESE BIRDS THAT IT WAS FRIGHTENING.

AND WHEN THEY'D LAND IN FORESTS, THEY'D BREAK GREAT TREES IN HALF.

AND THE CRAP WOULD FALL LIKE SNOW THE WHOLE TIME.

AND IT WAS THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE INEXHAUSTIBLE, SO THEY WERE HUNTED LIKE MAD.

THIS IS A SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WAS TAKEN IN 1898.

I LIKE DOING THESE LITTLE RESEARCH TRIPS.

IT'S LIKE PLAYACTING FOR ME TO PRETEND TO BE ONE OF THESE SORT OF ENGLISH NATURAL HISTORY GUYS THAT ARE BOTH HEROES AND VILLAINS.

THERE'S AN IMAGE IN HERE OF A SORT OF A FULL-GROWN MALE PASSENGER PIGEON VERY BEAUTIFULLY POSED.

VERY PROUD BIRD.

I THINK IT SORT OF FORETELLS DISASTER.

IT LOOKS LIKE, BECAUSE IT'S UNDERLIT, IT'S ALREADY A GHOST OR A MONSTER OR SOMEHOW THERE'S SOME DARK, DARK UNDERCURRENT TO THIS PHOTO THAT'S VERY BEAUTIFUL.

THERE'S MANY INSANE KIND OF LIKE NARRATIVES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE PASSENGER PIGEON.

THEY WERE SO NUMEROUS THAT EVERYONE WHO SAW THEM WAS SORT OF BLOWN AWAY BY THEM.

AND I HAVE SOME QUOTES THAT I ENDED UP PUTTING ON A PAINTING.

HERE THEY ARE.

THIS IS ONE OF THE EARLIEST DESCRIPTIONS, FROM 1637.

"MILLIONS OF TURTLEDOVES ON GREEN BOWS "WHICH SAT PECKING -- OF THE FULL RIPE PLEASANT GRAPES "THAT WERE SUPPORTED BY THE LUSTY TREES WHOSE FRUITFUL LOAD DID CAUSE THE ARMS TO BEND."

THE BIG THING I'M ALWAYS LOOKING FOR IN MY WORK IS A SORT OF ATTRACTION/REPULSION, WHERE THE STUFF IS BEAUTIFUL TO BEGIN WITH UNTIL YOU NOTICE THAT SOME SORT OF HORRIBLE VIOLENCE IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN OR IS IN THE MIDDLE OF HAPPENING.

THE ORIGINAL IMPULSE IS TO MAKE A SORT OF NASTY LITTLE UNDERGROUND CARTOON ON A REALLY LARGE SCALE.

I HAD A LOT OF FUN SORT OF MAKING THESE VIGNETTES.

THEY'RE SATISFYING ALL THEIR LUSTS AND ALL THEIR CRAVINGS AND ALL THEIR CRAZY DESIRES, LIKE AS THEY'RE GOING DOWN.

AND TO ME, THERE'S JUST SOME SORT OF BLACK HUMOR IN THAT.

THERE'S LIKE THESE GUYS, JUST THE EGGS ARE COMING OUT AND AS THEY'RE COMING OUT, THEY'RE BEING STOLEN.

AND THEN IT'S FUN TO HAVE THEM LIKE VOID ON EACH OTHER AND TO HAVE THEM MURDER EACH OTHER.

THAT LITTLE ONE IS FALLING OUT OF THE NEST.

IT'S A DARK HUMOR, BUT IT MAKES ME CHUCKLE WHEN I'M DOING IT.

THERE IS THIS SORT OF HUDSON RIVER KIND OF BEAUTIFUL LANDSCAPE, AND THEN OVER HERE, THERE'S SOME INDICATION OF MAYBE PREVIOUS DESTRUCTION, BRANCHES THAT HAVE BROKEN DOWN.

AND HERE COME THE HUGE FLOCKS, YOU KNOW.

AND THIS IS THE SCARY PART, THIS SORT OF WEATHER SYSTEM MOVING IN OF THESE ENORMOUS FLOCKS OF BIRDS.

WHEN I STARTED DOING SKETCHES FOR THIS AND I REALIZED THIS SORT OF -- I REALIZED THAT THE ANGLE I WAS GOING TO PAINT IT AT AND THE SORT OF WAY I WAS GOING TO PAINT IT, IT WOULD ALMOST SEEM LIKE IT WAS JUST FLOATING.

LIKE A SORT OF STRANGE DREAMLIKE SLOW-MOTION KIND OF FALLING.

AND THAT DREAMLIKE QUALITY GAVE ME ALL THIS ROOM TO PACK IT WITH ALL THIS NARRATIVE THAT SEEMS TO HAPPEN SORT OF INDEPENDENT OF THE FACT THAT THIS THING IS CRASHING DOWN.

THE PAINTING I'M WORKING ON NOW IS A MONKEY BANQUET BASICALLY.

AND IT'S PART OF A SERIES THAT HAS TO DO WITH THIS MID-19th-CENTURY EXPLORER, SIR RICHARD BURTON.

ONE OF THE STORIES THAT I WAS READING ABOUT HIM THAT STUCK WITH ME WAS THIS ONE ABOUT THESE MONKEYS THAT HE KEPT IN HIS QUARTERS WHEN HE WAS A YOUNG BRITISH OFFICER.

AND I'M GOING TO READ A QUOTE.

"HE GATHERED TOGETHER 40 MONKEYS "OF VARIOUS AGES AND SPECIES "AND INSTALLED THEM IN HIS HOUSE "IN AN ATTEMPT TO COMPILE A VOCABULARY OF MONKEY LANGUAGE."

"AND ONE TINY ONE, VERY PRETTY, "SMALL AND SILKY-LOOKING MONKEY, HE USED TO CALL HIS WIFE."

I PAINTED THE WIFE INDIVIDUALLY AND I NAMED IT "THE FORSAKEN."

SHE SITS IN A TREE AND SHE LOOKS ALL HEARTBROKEN AND BEREFT BECAUSE SHE'S BEEN ABANDONED BY HER LOVER.

"THEY ALL SAT DOWN ON CHAIRS AT MEALTIMES "AND THE SERVANTS WAITED ON THEM.

"AND EACH HAD ITS BOWL AND PLATE "WITH THE FOOD AND DRINK PROPER FOR THEM.

"HE SAT AT THE HEAD OF THE TABLE "AND THE PRETTY LITTLE MONKEY SAT BY HIM IN A BABY'S HIGH-CHAIR."

THAT'S JUST TOO GOOD.

"HE HAD A LIST OF ABOUT 60 WORDS BEFORE THE EXPERIMENT WAS CONCLUDED."

AND TO ME, THIS IS JUST WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR WHEN I'M DOING ALL THIS READING.

I DO A LOT OF RESEARCH, AND THIS THING HAS ALMOST EVERYTHING IN IT.

THERE'S AN EROTIC KIND OF FASCINATION TO IT, THERE'S SOMETHING THAT STRIKES ME AS HUMOROUS IN THE QUINTESSENTIALLY SUPERECCENTRIC BRITISH WAY.

WHEN THESE PAINTINGS LEAVE MY STUDIO, A LOT OF TIMES, I DON'T EVER GET TO SEE THEM AGAIN.

I PAINTED THIS PICTURE ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO AND I WAS HAPPY THAT I STILL LIKED IT BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES, YOU COME BACK TO WORK YOU DID A WHILE AGO AND CAN'T BEAR IT.

THE DRAWING I DID FIRST IS OF THIS ELEPHANT, THIS GLORIOUS ELEPHANT.

AND THEN I DIVIDED IT IN A SORT OF MONDRIAN FASHION INTO ALL THESE DIFFERENT -- INTO A VERY, WHAT I THOUGHT AN ELEGANT ABSTRACT COMPOSITION OF RECTANGLES, AND IN EACH RECTANGLE, I DECIDED WHAT TO DO.

THE IDEA OF DIVIDING IT UP INTO BITS HAD TO DO WITH A SORT OF PARABLE ABOUT THE BLIND MAN AND THE ELEPHANT, WHERE EACH BLIND MAN GRABS AHOLD OF A DIFFERENT PART OF THE ELEPHANT.

AND THE ONE THAT GRABS THE TUSK SAYS, "WELL, I KNOW WHAT AN ELEPHANT IS, HE'S SMOOTH, HARD, KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, POLISHED WOOD."

AND THEN ONE GRABS THE LEG AND SAYS, "NO, NO, NO, AN ELEPHANT IS LIKE THE TREE.

IT'S LIKE A TREE TRUNK."

AND THE TAIL, THE GUY SAYS, "WELL, IT'S LIKE A PAINTBRUSH."

AND THE GUY WHO HAS THE NOSE SAYS IT'S LIKE A SNAKE.

SO I HAD THIS IDEA OF HAVING THE ELEPHANT DIVIDED UP INTO BITS THAT WOULDN'T IDENTIFY IT AS AN ELEPHANT ALL BY ITSELF.

AND HAVE EACH ONE OF THOSE THINGS FRAMED INDIVIDUALLY AND THEN HAVE A DIFFERENT SPECIES OF BIRD INHABIT THAT LITTLE FRAME AND DO HIS THING WITHIN IT.

AND IT'S LIKE HE DOESN'T SEE ANY OF THE OTHER ELEMENTS SO HE CAN'T PUT THE WHOLE PICTURE TOGETHER.

IT'S TOO VAST FOR ONE PERSON TO PICTURE.

I WANTED TO MAKE SORT OF THE LARGEST WATERCOLORS EVER.

ULTIMATELY, THAT BECOMES FUN ALL BY ITSELF.

IT TOOK ABOUT NINE MONTHS TO PAINT.

ALL OF THIS MAKES IT SOUND LIKE I HAVE THIS GREAT KIND OF INTELLECTUAL REASON FOR MAKING THESE THINGS, BUT ULTIMATELY, I WANT TO PAINT A SEXY MONKEY AND I WANT TO PAINT A BIG HUGE, YOU KNOW, ELEPHANT WITH AN ERECTION.

WHY?

WHY DO I FEEL THE NEED TO MAKE THESE THINGS?

WHY IS IT THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE THEM AS DISTURBING AS YOU CAN?

OR MAKE THEM AS VIOLENT AND OUT OF CONTROL AS YOU CAN?

I LIKE A KIND OF OVERWROUGHT EMOTION, MELODRAMA, VERY 19th-CENTURY MODES OF COMMUNICATING.

I'M NOT A MINIMALIST, I'M A MAXIMALIST, YOU KNOW?

THE MORE YOU THROW AT IT, THE BETTER.

IT'S A SORT OF A WASTELAND OUT THERE.

I WANT TO, LIKE, DO RICH THINGS, I WANT TO MAKE RICH DISHES AND PUT THEM OUT THERE.

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