I always hate to say, "If I had my life to live over," because it's dumb.

But if I had my life to live over, I would like to have been a prima ballerina.

I didn't discover ballet until I was 35, which is a little late, but since then, for instance, people offered to let me dance the Queen in "Swan Lake."

The Queen is the queen mother, you understand, and she doesn't do anything except that.

But I think that would be fun.

I may do it one of these days.

I love it because it's the most comprehensive of the arts.

I can go to a ballet anywhere.

I mean, I am duck soup for anybody.

I've been approached by every ballet company within the radius of...600 miles, [laughing] and I've now joined all the companies.

♪ ♪ (Jim Welch) Joanne Woodward, Academy Award-winning star of film, stage, and television, returned home to South Carolina to work with the Little Theatre of Greenville, where in the late '40s she studied acting.

The years since have brought incredible success and fame to Woodward, with such memorable motion pictures as "Three Faces of Eve," and "Summer Wishes, Winter Dreams" On this "Profile," the story of Joanne Woodward is told in her words in an interview on the set of "The Glass Menagerie," the play she came back to do, again under the direction of Bob McLane.

♪ It's fascinating that someone has achieved a body of work in one place that is as meaningful as the work that Bob has done.

I think the Greenville Little Theatre is certainly one of the most widely known little theaters in the South, if not the country as a whole, and it has been for many years.

I first worked with the Little Theatre in...1946... '46, I think.

That's a few years back.

(Welch) What made you come back?

To the Little Theatre?

Well, quite selfishly I came back because I wanted to play, or explore, a role that I wouldn't have a chance to play ordinarily-- or wouldn't want to play-- in front of a New York audience or a California audience because I'm not ready for the part.

But here, Bob was kind enough to let me come down and do it, and people have been marvelous.

I understand our review was terrible, but I don't read reviews, so it's okay, and I've had a chance to explore.

It's a part that has level upon level upon level.

I'm sure that six months from now I'll say, "Now I know what that moment was about."

But it's a great way of exploring the role.

Is it harder work than you imagined, coming back?

Much, much...I haven't been on stage in 12 years.

I suppose had I really, seriously thought about it, I would have perhaps decided to do something that was not as difficult, but I've had a wonderful time doing it.

I'm terrified before I go on, but once I get on and begin to say, "Here it is, and it's my stage, and I live here, and I'm a little old lady," it's great!

We'll talk more about that as we go back through the years and come up to Greenville, the first appearance, and meeting Bob McLane again.

Beginning back in the '30s at Thomasville, Georgia, what kind of child were you as you have heard from your parents?

I suppose I was a...

I was a born actress, according to my mother... who's to know?

But according to my mother, I acted from the moment I was born.

I know that I did recite The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag at the age of two in front of the school assembly, because my father taught school there.

I don't remember it, needless to say.

We moved away from there when I was about two, and from then on we lived in Blakely, Georgia, and I made quite a few appearances tap dancing and singing, "Is It True What They Say About Dixie," in a heart-shaped Valentine costume.

[laughing] I remember that.

Your mother had said in one clipping I read that you memorized parts of Encyclopedia Britannica.

You had an extremely high IQ-- Oh, isn't that pretentious?

I mean, my heavens above!

I read "Gone with the Wind" nine times.

By the time I was nine I had read "Gone with the Wind" nine times and could recite pages.

I didn't hear that-- True... that is true, yes!

I thought I was Scarlett O'Hara!

Greenville High school...

I know you graduated in 1947.

What was Greenville like when you first came?

What was life like then?

Greenville was... still a small town or the sense of a small town when I lived here.

When I came this time, I couldn't believe what had happened!

I couldn't find my way around--still can't-- and find little that's recognizable.

I lived in a very small apartment with my mother.

My mother and father had divorced, and... it was an interesting life for me because I'd always lived in very small towns.

I lived in Marietta previous to this.

I first became aware of theater, or acting, as something that had a reality to it, not just like a daydream of, Some day I'm going to grow up and be a movie star, when I started working with Bob in his acting class when I was 14.

The first play I did was "Junior Miss," in which I played the lead.

I was a sophomore.

Then we did "Abe Lincoln in Illinois," and a play about Woodrow Wilson called "In Time to Come," which I'd never heard of before nor since, but was, I guess, a well-known play.

That was when Bob McLane taught drama at Greenville High School.

Yes, he was teaching then.

Then for my senior play-- can you imagine-- we did "Joan of Lorraine."

It had just been on Broadway, the play by Maxwell Andersen, and I played Saint Joan.

It's fortunate, because every actress should get Saint Joan out of her system as quickly as possible.

A great challenge at that time?

Certainly, because I now realize I had absolutely no idea what the play was about and refused to cut my hair because of my sorority.

We were having the spring dance, and I didn't want short hair.

So I was the only long-haired Saint Joan I've ever heard of.

After Greenville and graduating LSU-- we'll skip through years some because there is much to talk about-- but Louisiana State University...drama again.

Did Bob encourage you to go on and study drama?

Well, yes, he did.

I had done little theater plays when the Little Theatre started up again in '46.

We did "I Remember Mama."

Then we did a play by Ruth Gordon called "Years Ago."

Bob was the one who suggested I go to LSU because he said they had a good drama department, and I couldn't afford to go to any big place or any expensive schools, so I did go to LSU, majored in drama, and made friends there that are still my friends.

One of my closest friends, Gene Callahan, one of the foremost set designers in California and New York now, was in school with me, and Bill Harp who does the sets for "The Carol Burnette Show."

It's marvelous that we've stuck together.

You've got a "Carol Burnette Show" coming up.

Ah, yes!

Um, work as a secretary, what-- Oh, that was just... that was two months.

I worked for dear Albert Quigley, whose secretary was sick or something.

I wanted to go to New York and didn't have any money.

So he hired me as secretary.

I cannot imagine what I did, because I could neither type nor take shorthand.

I spent all my time reading movie magazines, and then I lost a check.

I don't think he really fired me though.

He was kind and just... let me go.

Then back to Greenville and Little Theatre and "The Glass Menagerie."

I did that in the time... between the time I left LSU and then went to New York.

We did it...

I guess it was in September '49, and then I went to New York right after.

Massachusetts summer stock comes in here too.

I went first to Neighborhood Playhouse.

Sanford Meisner.

Mary Ann Cannon, who was from Greenville, had gone to The Neighborhood Playhouse and was a very fine actress, and she encouraged me to go to the playhouse, something that I am forever grateful for because I studied with Sandy Meisner and Martha Graham... real giants in terms of work.

It's lovely to work with two geniuses.

This lead to "Robert Montgomery Presents," first TV-- That was, yes, the first television show I did, right after I got out of school.

That was back in television's-- Golden era.

Live television, many times-- was this filmed?

Live... all of it was live then.

"Four Star," "U.S. Steel"-- No, "Four Star," the ones in California were some film ones.

"Four Star Playhouses" were filmed, but the first three, four years I did television in New York, all of it was live.

It was fun because you'd sometimes be doing two at a time-- beginning rehearsals of one, ending rehearsals of another-- and doing a play the same time.

Do you remember how the first television break came?

I had a marvelous agent, John Foreman, who is now a foremost producer.

He produced "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" and "The Man Who Would Be King."

He, at that time, was my agent, and still one of my closest friends.

He insisted that I had to have this part.

They wanted an unknown, and he was terribly persistent and kept bringing me in to read.

He's the one who got it for me.

At this time, Broadway, and you met...Paul Newman as "Picnic"-- when you were understudies.

Yes, we were understudies together.

Paul got the part, but I didn't.

But I played many times.

Four hundred and seventy-seven runs for "Picnic," and 50 times you played, stepped in-- At least, yes.

Then out to Hollywood, and I have a note here that Dick Powell helped with your first movie contract.

Well...I did a television show with Dick in which I played opposite him on one of the "Four Star Playhouse" films when I first went to Hollywood.

I just went out on spec.

I left "Picnic" and went into a musical with Shirley Booth, and I got fired after five days.

Is that the only time?

That I've ever gotten fired, yes.

I was grateful, I must say.

Ms. Booth was not an easy lady to work for.

She fired the director, leading dancer...

I wasn't alone!

Anyway, I had enough money to buy a round-trip ticket to California.

I said, I've got enough money to go for three months, summertime-- there wasn't much in New York in summer anyway-- and I'll see how I do.

I can always get back.

I sublet my apartment, went, and managed to do three television shows, one of which was with Dick, which turned out to be very successful.

Dick was so impressed that he wanted me to join "Four Star Playhouse" as the fourth star, which I thought was marvelous considering I wasn't a star.

They had... there was Dick and David Niven and Charles Boyer and Ida Lupino, but then she left, so they wanted somebody else.

But I said, No, I didn't want to be in a television series.

Then later Dick was very involved at 20th Century Fox, and he suggested to Buddy Adler, who was head of production, that they should sign me, and they did.

Three independent pictures... "Calico Pony," "Count Three and Pray"-- No... "Count Three and Pray" and "Calico Pony" is the same film.

It was a lovely film called "Calico Pony," only they couldn't find two ponies alike.

They had to have two, one for a double, so they had to change to a white pony.

You said about yourself, "Nobody knew I was even in the pictures," I guess, in the beginning.

Not in "Count Three and Pray," no.

That was not a successful film, but I had an incredible role in it.

I loved the part, and...Van Heflin, I played opposite Van Heflin, who was absolutely marvelous, and Raymond Burr.

That's right...1956, more TV top dramatic shows and Broadway play, "The Lovers."

[laughing] Well, "Three Faces," we could talk-- Whew... what a bad play!

In 1957, "The Three Faces of Eve," because that...

I guess so many awards... the Academy Award, the Oscar, and the-- It was most unsuccessful, though, when it was first released.

It didn't have anybody of any import.

Me and Lee Cobb and David Wayne... not a group to make you rush to the box office.

Nobody ever heard of me.

Mixed reviews for the picture, but raves for you from most critics.

That's the last time I ever read a review.

I thought, Well, I'm left with one of two choices... either they're going to be great like this, in which case I'm going to get an inflated sense of what I'm doing, or they'll be terrible, and that'll give me an ulcer, neither of which is an advantage.

So I have never read a review since, except once.

Accidentally I read a review, which I liked, because it was a review of "From the Terrace," and it referred to me as silkenly sexy.

I thought, I've never been silkenly sexy before, so I was glad I read that one.

I remember "From the Terrace..." fell in love with you then.

Quite a few years ago!

Great film...

I loved it.

Academy Awards, Film Daily, Golden Globe, National Board of Review... prestigious awards, and that should have launched you then upon one super career as a superstar.

"No Down Payment" came shortly after-- No, what it did, it was curious, and it's something that's interesting, because what it did was to put me in an untenable position.

I mean, "Three Faces of Eve" was a fluky picture.

It was an easy role.

Three different people.

It was three different parts, a wonderfully-written script.

Nunnally Johnson who wrote the script also directed it.

I had two marvelous actors to work with.

The advantage I had was I was very free and have the kind of face that doesn't look the same.

It was easy to be different, no great challenge.

In that respect, a lot of parts I have played have been more difficult.

But what it did was give me this terrible burden known as, "Ah, yes, she won an Academy Award."

Therefore everything else that I did had to be of that caliber, a very difficult thing to do to a young actor or actress.

I found it, more than anything else, extremely limiting and was often afterwards sorry that it had happened.

I thought it was more detrimental to my career than helpful.

Bring out one point here about you being thrifty... was it thrift that you wore a dress you made to the Academy Awards?

I couldn't afford to buy a dress!

I was under contract at 20th Century Fox, the days when contract players did not-- I think I made, I don't know, I think $175 a week, but I had to pay my agent, rent, a car.

That was hardly enough money to buy expensive gowns to be worn to Academy Awards.

"No Down Payment"... your performance was called, well, you were called, "arresting individual, not beautifully glamorous."

I've seen that written several times about you... gorgeous in many different ways, but not beautiful.

Well, I don't think I've-- "From the Terrace" was the only part that required me to be beautifully glamorous.

I mean, certainly I was capable of being beautifully glamorous if necessary, but actually the best parts are seldom beautifully glamorous.

Most are ones where you don't wear any makeup.

Outspoken... thrifty gown... many hobbies...

I've read so many different things.

Over the years they change.

Astrology and ESP-- [laughing] Astrology!

Palmistry... ESP?

Palmistry?

Photography!

Well, yes, I had a big thing for photography for years, but I don't get a chance to do it much.

It was 1958, you married Paul Newman, and he at that time, three children.

Let's talk about, because we rapidly are running out of time, more contemporary issues... raising a family, being an actress, having two careers, whether it's acting or what have you, combining the two-- It's difficult, and given the choice again, I wouldn't do it.

I would make the choice... have children or have a career.

It only takes away...at least it happened that way with me.

I don't know any women-- I don't care what they say-- who really manage to do that wonderful juggling act of being a good mother and great career person at the same time.

I don't know anybody who makes that work, not one.

I don't think it's possible.

On the surface you made it.

[laughing sarcastically] Well, you know, it's very easy if you've got a lot of money and you can hire good help.

Your kids are not likely to be on the street.

What it's done to my kids...

I'm sure that they would say, and often have said, that it's not fair.

It's not fair to have been dragged around from pillar to post, school to school.

My eldest daughter has gone to 12 schools.

She's only 17 years old.

Let's talk, if we can, about the six children and Paul.

Scott, Susan, Stephanie, Nell, Lissy, and Clea.

Scott's the oldest?

Scott is 25... he is an actor.

Susan is acting?

Susan is an actress, uh, unemployed at the moment, but not for long, we hope.

Stephanie is working-- Does she want to act?

No, Stephanie is going to Boston University, and she is apprenticed to a blacksmith.

She is a wonderful, unique human being who goes her own way.

She is more like my child than any of my children.

I mean, she seems more like she was my child, but I've been her stepmother since she was this high, so maybe some rubbed off.

Nell is 17, almost 17, and wants to be an ornithologist, if she can ever manage to pass geometry.

Lissy, who is an artist, is 14, and Clea, who is my baby, is the only perfect human being I know.

It's nice to be the mother of a perfect human being, and she is.

Did you take more time with Clea?

Yes...

I would say that Clea is probably the only child that I truly raised, because I had her when I was 35, and I realized that that moment... that it was more important.

That's when my career...when I really stopped acting almost.

For about five years I did very little, because it seemed terribly important, and because I thought, This is my last child.

Everything that happens with her, every moment-- the day I weaned her, I thought, I'm never gonna see her in this position again!

Everything was so special that I didn't want to miss any of it.

I wish I had been sensible enough to recognize that about each of them.

In terms of homes, places you've lived... an apartment that Tennessee Williams called "The great example of southern decadence."

[laughing] That's my Dad Tennessee said that about!

Tennessee also said to me after he met my mother, [imitating Williams] "Joanne, Joanne... if I hadn't known "I had written 'Glass Menagerie' about my mother, I would have thought I had written it about yours."

And she is!

Life in Hollywood, in Los Angeles... you and Mr. Newman, Paul Newman, didn't care for that so much?

Well, we're nomadic in that sense.

We love New York and Connecticut, the change of scenery...

I love all that.

I have no dislike for California.

I went through years of saying, "I hate Hollywood," but it's not true.

I love Hollywood...we're living there now by choice and find it great fun.

Some of my best friends live there.

I don't like to stay anyplace.

I'm not a tree...

I don't need roots.

You have a big home in Westport.

We have a house, not a big home, in Westport.

There's been stories about 10 dogs, 14 cats, the skunk, pigeons-- Well, we've had all of those over the time.

At the moment we have... nine cats... five dogs... one finch... three horses.

I think that's all, momentarily.

I mean, it changes, fluctuates.

I think one of the kittens is pregnant, so we'll probably have more.

Where do the children enjoy... where has the family most enjoyed their life?

They feel most content in Connecticut, and they really were against moving this time, but they've all settled down beautifully there and like it.

I think they are somewhat gypsylike too.

They've always lived that way.

Nell, when she was less than a year, Paul and I took her to Israel when Paul was doing "Exodus."

She learned to walk in the garden of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.

She said her first word on Cyprus and lost her first tooth in the elevator of the, uh... oh, that marvelous hotel in Chicago between trains.

I forget...that big, beautiful, old hotel.

So it's a nomadic existence, and we've all learned to live with that.

What about living with Paul Newman, superstar?

Is it difficult?

People have talked about being married 18 years-- Yeah, it is very difficult.

He's traveling a lot-- No, that aspect of it is not difficult!

No, we spend a great deal of time... Paul is very home-oriented.

He never goes away, for instance, on location without one of the children with him.

They all get their turn.

The last picture, Stephanie went with him and worked as an extra in the picture and also worked in the wardrobe department.

Susan is going this time to work as Paul's secretary.

He can't stand being without somebody.

No, I think the difficulty exists with anybody who's well known.

People tend to look at them as what they see on screen.

They have no sense of reality.

People do that with me here.

I've tried to say, "You don't understand... "I'm me, not what you see up there.

"You went to high school with me.

Don't look at me like I'm somebody else."

And people treat Paul that way.

Paul is a nice guy.

He's very sweet, he's rather shy.

It makes him very nervous.

He really gets embarrassed when ladies grab hold to him, you know.

It's very hard to make people understand.

They think he's being snobbish.

It's not true.

We're running out of time rapidly.

Does that bother you at times, the girls grabbing after Paul?

It worries me because it's sad for him.

I know he hates it, and it's uncomfortable.

It's uncomfortable, for instance, when he came here that he had to wear a dumb wig on his head.

He can't go anywhere with the kids because people come up to him, and it embarrasses the children.

Arthur Miller says, "It goes with the territory," but it's not easy.

Joanne, will you be busier in the next few years in Hollywood?

I expect so because my kids are older.

I just did a "Carol Burnette Show," something I've never done...

I sang and danced.

I went through the "est" experience...do you know it?

You must know something about "est."

I've heard, yes.

Erhard Seminar Training, and I found it really did an extraordinary thing for me because, if anything, it reminded me that life only consists of this moment, right now.

Not tomorrow, not yesterday, not anything else, it's only right now, and it's only what you make of it too.

I mean, you make other people.

You create your world, and you can either create it good or bad.

I said, "Great...

I'll start right now!"

I'd always wanted to sing and dance, and Carol had always wanted me to do her show.

I said, "Okay, it may be awful, but I don't care!"

So maybe more of that?

Yeah!

Whether it's dramatic, or whatever-- Whatever I decide to create.

I appreciate you spending time with us this half hour, because I know how precious your time can be.

It's only right now.

In the one minute left... any advice you can give to a young person thinking of theater or Hollywood?

Should they do it or forget it?

I don't think you could say that, because if they want to, they'll do it.

Kids ask me, "Should I go into theater?"

I say, "If you're asking me, you shouldn't, because you won't."

I've never said to my kids "do" or "don't."

Two of them are doing it, and they may or may not, because it's a tough business.

I wish we had more time.

This has gone by fast.

We didn't get into women's liberation.

Do you ever sign autographs?

No.

Paul doesn't either?

No, our kids didn't like it.

It used to embarrass them, so we stopped.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

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