>> Chicago City Council is holding off on expanding Pell since tax increment financing or TIF district.

Older people voted last week to shell the divisive proposal until next month.

Supporters think the plan could help tackle economic challenges that they say are slowing down development.

But opponents fear further justification would push out longstanding residents.

Joining us now to discuss this topic is David hit it out.

Our full a former aldermanic candidate in lifelong Pilsen resident father Brendan Caron with Resurrection Project Lucien Moya chief of staff for the 25th Ward, an Alderman Byron Sigcho Lopez in Polson resident what thank you, everyone for joining us.

I know this topic.

There's very there's different I want to start with you.

Let's start with the big question.

What is tipped?

How can you simple flight?

Simple like that?

No, it could.

It could be confusing so definitely.

So do my best to simplify it as much.

But is a tax increment finance tool that is utilized within a certain map district.

So diver attacks from the property tax bill that's paid.

>> So be able to go into this fun and then the fund is utilized to be a tool within that map, the area that that tax has been diverted.

So and how would you say poll since to have benefited or has affected the community?

>> I would say over the last 5 years the community has seen a full public benefit, especially on their ultimate such a locus since 2019.

>> His usage of the industrial, tough as it exists, has been 100% within schools within parks with affordable housing.

So it reflects his alignment on why his proposal is to go more into the residential area.

And father, you support the proposal.

Why?

>> We support First of all, represent the pills and preservation collective its over.

25 organizations, church, communities and stakeholders who see this is opportune moment to stop some of the bleeding in our residential community and assist us with some top tough infrastructural expenses that an ordinary budget ordinary year can simply not tackle like school buildings, construction improvements like opportunities for repairing the live local library for opportunity for some of the local residents repair the roof, fix the porch and repair the sidewalks, the vault, that sidewalks and lead pipes, Intel Center.

Some of the oldest aging structures through all the city of Chicago.

It's a win-win to help pay it forward for the next generation.

>> And David, want to go to you talked about the potential risk of displacement of longtime residents of the expansion occurs in Pilsen has already seeing massive changes in recent years.

You are against expansion.

How would you say that?

You know what?

is your mindset?

Anwar you again?

Yeah, that historically have not worked.

Actually, there's a lot of data behind it.

>> Why those if enacted 1998, in Pilsen is supposed to sunset in 2022.

Meeting Ixpe to expire.

>> Collected nearly 300 million dollars were where that money call, right?

If we did an audit.

When we do know through Porting still what they do is a transfer.

The money from one neighborhood to another.

A lot of money went to Lincoln Yards.

It's yet to be built.

lot of money went to the 78 700 Million.

This 2 billion dollars in Taft was awarded to those 2 projects.

If you go there now, nothing's we haven't broken ground.

Meanwhile, you've got taxes use been paying for it since 1998, and haven't seen the at the end of the day.

I'm against any at all to the really tough for its money from the city's general fund and from there, that's what the city pays for schools, parks, low-income housing, and to be honest from the housing perspective, that's the job of C H a. you for a large city, right?

should be dealt with that with the city budget.

Part of the negotiations versus creating these 2 fiefdoms.

Because what it does is it raises everyone's taxes across entire city.

And we were just really need abolish all the tips they haven't worked.

Actually, there's those 3 billion dollars at the end of the beginning of this year in the on all the city to funds.

And this year-long was a record.

1.3 billion dollars.

We're facing a billion dollar deficit in 2025. if we stall of tips tomorrow and that 1.3 billion hit if the city general account.

We would we would actually be in a surplus, right?

So now next year, it creates more deficits within the city budget.

Right?

And then that increases our taxes and then rents go up.

And then people get place.

I want to bring Diego and your resident of Pilsen as well.

What's your expansion?

You we were skeptical at first and we know that there's been a long histories, but Europeans Ministrations of using the tip in ways that we would not agree with.

But I think the reality is that.

>> We're in a new political era.

You know, the daily do not run the city anymore.

Madigan doesn't run the state anymore.

And you look at the data of what the tiff has actually been used for.

In-person is exactly what David mentioned has been used on schools.

He's not parks.

>> It's been used on affordable housing and you look at what's happening in Pilsen Tulsans hit with the highest property tax increases in the entire city by a wide margin.

But 47% was the average increase and that's way higher than number 2.

And so we're saying is and that's driven not by whatever the city is doing is being driven by the private real estate investment that's occurring.

You look at the Cook County Assessor data.

Also the sales price of homes are also inflating at the same rate the highest inflation sales prices in the city as well.

It's not a coincidence that that's happening at the same time.

People of the highest property tax bills.

So if you're going to be collecting all this money from the neighborhood, why not use it for our benefit and use our own money to determine how we won development to occur in our neighborhood.

Why do you think there's such a divide?

I think that because of the historic and misuse under pews administrations on people mentioned in kun yards and others under the mural ship.

But the things different.

This is a different time is a different place.

And you look at with positive is actually used for you look at the language and this is about really about housing.

This is about giving people affordable place to live and we can determine that with our own tax dollars.

>> And Lucy of the proposals already been delayed to next month.

What needs to happen in that time to make it happen and be less divisive as the word that's been used, right?

I mean, so our office over the summer and over the last 14 months we've been hosting different if engagement, Stephen Brown tables.

>> really tender to the engagement on informing folks.

What is it tough?

I think at the beginning of this, our office ensure that we would coco through surveys focus is on their standing around that if itself.

And what we found was that more than half of the folks who will attend that are 2 sessions did not understand.

What is it if and how the tax a version occurs.

And so first, it's really assist in our community and understanding that accessibility to funds.

Folks are always asking what happens.

Our property taxes where they go historically across the city.

And has been used in a way that has been her full, especially in black and brown communities.

But what this proposal is looking at is exactly what Douglas stating it was, not that all the eligibility of blighted.

It was still have ability for conservation.

So what that means is that the conservation makes it a focus on preservation preservation.

Saw the message of hope is that affordable housing, low-income housing, access the full funding of our schools of our parks into is home repair grads.

So all of these programs in alignment with the tools that don't exist and are really not laid out from the state.

So you're on series saying there's there's voices their David, I want to go to you what you know, what are people saying in the neighborhood in reality is that we've been burned with tips in Chicago.

They were implemented by Harold Washington.

>> 84, whenever he's lady 3 you know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and expecting a different outcome.

And that's essentially what they admitted to.

>> The reality of it sets a bad precedent because now this autumn and want to to fund those seas last for 23 years.

It's a biblical generation right?

And the district's change towards change.

And then now the next alderman wants his 10th for his past pet projects they all want So there's less money going to the city for police for school.

What do they do?

The raising taxes, the moneys, their face light.

It's a slush fund.

The call that the mayor slush fund and this thing about where in the era of progressed, you Lori Lightfoot gave that money to Lincoln Yards.

That was just 5 years ago.

So, I don't buy it.

I don't buy it right.

Look at historical.

Look at the track record defeated an audit of the pilsen tip the last 23 years from 98 to 2022, it expired.

Show me the audit where the money go.

I guarantee a lot of that money left Pilsen to downtown feet with a wife.

They want the money clock back.

Go to those to private developments.

Get it back.

Why are they giving away this money and it's going to other neighborhoods.

That's what happened at league in yards.

It took the adjacent Tiffany.

They moved it.

That's what happened at the 78, the to bring the father and what it.

What are your thoughts?

I think it's really important for us to remember that there are over 100 tips active in Chicago today that this is a math.

This is not about stopping and starting and tough.

>> It's about a continuing to if that, unfortunately, the residential community in that area of the near West Side is watching from a distance and not able to take advantage of an important resource if we do not pass this amendment, we will see over 90 unit sitting out there of affordable housing we need there's over