Speaker 1: Well, sometimes you go into a grocery store or a clothing store, even, even here in San Antonio.

Uh, you have to kind of laugh about it.

Cause you know, you can't take all this stuff personally.

Cause it would drive you crazy, increase your blood pressure, everything.

So they're looking at you like, um, you can't afford that.

I mean, Oh, just myself, people that I know personally have run into those situations or they're watching you, like, you know, like you're going to steal something and I was taught as a kid.

You know, if you don't have it, you don't get it.

You save up the money and buy.

If that store is discriminated against me, then I don't go back there anymore.

Sometimes to try to get, even with the person, I'll go back and say, well, by the way, you know, you lost the cell and then they look at you like, Oh, we didn't know that you were a doctor.

And my dad always told me, he said, well, framing, don't go around telling people what you do because they're going to Jack up the price that they're charging $50 for the regular person.

They gonna charge you a hundred because they figure you adopted that you have all of this money.

But so I always remembered that.

And for the most part, I don't tell people what I do Speaker 2: When you're on site.

You never know what type of person you may come across.

So that's why whenever I see some if like, say if I don't see anybody on the driveway, I just keep on, on the sidewalks.

I don't have to worry about cars, but there's somebody on the driveway or outside of the house anywhere.

I just go off to the side side of the street.

I just see somebody looking at me like looking at me, cautiously.

I may try to put more distance between me and them.

So they won't have to be as cautious or worry about me.

And I don't have to worry about anything happening to me.

You grew up learning about so many great black men or who, who did so many great things, right?

And, and, and spoke out against AIDS and did all the right things right way.

And almost every one of those stories Speaker 1: Ends up the same way.

There's About 50 masks that we have to wear daily.

If you talk to any black person, they'll typically We have A right to be upset.

We have, everyone has a right to be angry, but for some reason we have to suppress our us even more.

Because again, that's the angry black guy, angry black woman, get them out of here.

No, let's, let's put somebody else in here.

You know, I can't tell these kids that I lost my job because John called me a nigger and I got mad at him.

Hey, great way to stand up.

We're homeless.

But I stood up to him.

Yeah.

Got to understand the way that we were bought here.

As the profit margin for America, Jews work us to death for free, make a slave away, separate the man away from his family to conquer him to be little and to treat him like an animal less than any other human historically African-Americans have been named everything under the sun to make it okay, to send us to jail and to, to, to, to shoot and kill because we are, you know, super predators.

We're super criminals.

We are repeat offenders and it's, this is a historical narrative.

People, um, spend so much time worrying about or judging people based on their color and not getting to know them.

Right.

And, and I've been very, very fortunate because of, you know, being able to play sports and, and business.

I've got to travel all around the world.

I've gotten to meet, uh, people from all different backgrounds and colors and religions and races.

And my wife is, um, Asian from India, she's from India.

And so my, you know, my, my kids are even more diverse than I am.

And you know, at the end of the day, people always care about their family.

You sit around a table, people are good, they want the best for their kids.

They want the best for their families, but somehow some way conflict happens so quickly just because you're different from somebody else.

The bottom line for me is that there are people, Oh, who I think have a very stark contrast between the two worlds It's in which they live.

Um, mine's not, mine's a little more blended than that in my experience, the Bible teaches like love and hate can exist together.

So, and hate is such a strong Speaker 2: Term.

Um, so I don't know that I've ever hated anyone.

Um, anger.

Yes.

There's the anger that occurs.

And so it's like, what do you do with that?

You can do good or you can do bad with that.

You can.

Um, and so the thing that I've I've chosen to do is let my voice be heard.

Speaker 1: It's hail living out here in this world, you know, because we, we fighting, it used to be education.

Now it's not education.

It's just, just being, you, just being the skin color that you are.

And, you know, that's, that's, uh, uh, that's his depression with it.

We're not, I think we are, we're not animals.

We're not killers.

We're not, if anything, we're probably a little bit more higher than any other priests, you know, uh, intellectual wise and everything else.

Cause we have to, we've had to endure so many things and to still be able to sit in front of you and talk and laugh and smile, knowing that he doesn't like me.

She doesn't like me, not because of who I am, but just because of this, You know, I've, I've, I've taken several journeys.

Uh, but the, the one serious journey that I didn't want to partake in, uh, during my addiction is, is, is, is being sentenced by the judicial system to prison.

Uh, that's one thing that woke me up, uh, I, I just, you know, I love my freedom.

I thank God that, you know, it sent angels by me because I didn't go out there and, and, you know, Rob and steal and kill from no one.

Yeah.

Oh, that's, that's, uh, uh, it can, it can, addiction can really, it can hurt you.

You know, I'm just thankful that I was able to, to wake up and, and, and, and, and map out a plan, because like I said earlier, you know, if I didn't map out a plan, the state of Texas was going to have a plan for me Before.

I didn't like to talk until I got in drug court and start mentoring.

Uh, my probation officer told me when he first met me, that you'll be a good mentor or like, yeah, right.

I'm not talking to nobody like that.

But now I look forward to mentoring because when they come in, I tell them, I say, look, if you relapse, you're not going to jail or prison.

You get help.

Drug court is a blessing, and I'm glad I got the opportunity.

So that's why I mentor until I can't mentor anymore, because I just love sharing my, and Reaching out to other people, young and old, and of all races, people call me Carol boy, it's a name that somebody just gave to me one day.

Uh, my cowboy days started with my grandfather out in Ireland, was rancher and the cowboy and the Roper bigs, majority of his life, we were blessed.

Uh, we didn't have to worry about where the next bullet coming from.

We didn't have to worry about, um, people riding in drive by shootings because we were family oriented, no matter who it was.

If he was white, Hispanic, black, everybody came to 709 South park street.

So when people came in, they wanted to be like us.

And it was, uh, it was a good way of being able to give the experience of our lives to somebody else.

The other thing that I remember when I was in, in the military was that when my wife and I joined the military, we literally had no debt because we just came out of, um, out of seminary.

And, um, I went to purchase a car.

My, my commander said to me said, now Copeland, when you buy a car, don't buy a new car, get you a used car.

I saw a, uh, 1979, uh, 300 D that's diesel, Mercedes Benz.

When I saw the bins, I said, Oh, that's my car.

I get the car.

I bring it back to the base.

I run, run inside to see my, my commander, my chapel commander.

And, and I said, man, I do what you told me to do.

He said, uh, what was that?

I said, I got a used car.

He said, well, what kind of used cars did you get?

I said, a Mercedes.

He said all hell.

Okay.

Uh, I can tell you that because a black four star general is so rare that it garners at extra amount of attention.

And in some, in some ways, again, because it's counter to what people's expectations are it sort of almost garners.

You want to two reactions, either a greater amount of respect or some, you know, a way to minimize the, the accomplishment and the achievement.

Um, so when I wear my uniform, that the general idea is that, um, you know, certainly there is, uh, a great deal of respect and, and to some extent, admiration that goes along with that, the reactions that I get from people.

Um, and, and when I'm not in uniform, um, I can tell you for the most part, uh, I, I don't have the experience of being treated radically, uh, negatively.

I don't get treated the same way as when I'm in uniform, but I'm sort of treated mostly like everyone else.

And the person, um, you know, asked me, are you, are you, are you here to move the cars?

And, you know, and I said, no, actually I'm not.

I, I actually am not the, I'm not the Valley.

Um, uh, I live here, you know, so I was in, and it was really, uh, meant to, to me, I think when I give it back to someone like that, they already feel bad and it's even worse when I don't make it when I don't make them.

When I don't make a scene, there's good people in every race, but in this society, uh, um, it's been a constant battle.

You know, we got the leftover books when I was high.

I remember, you know, when I was in high school, well, we didn't get all the equipment, you know, that we could have gotten to educate ourselves.

Um, as I said, we got leftover books from the white school.

Well, um, we may do, but that's just, that's, that's the point making do?

Why is it that we have to make, do you know, we could be just as good as anybody else in this country, uh, in this world, given the same opportunity.

Aaron was around about 12 years old.

When this gentleman ran 16 and 17 seven, and through covenant rocks told him, I said, please don't do that to me, tell you, one week later to my dad, what happened did Speaker 2: Mr. Home, I forget his name, user's picking at me.

And he said, take care of it.

Thank you.

Good more.

And he says, you finishing school in regard to college there for three, three years before graduation, Mrs. Jones, if you're going to do anything, you have to be, do it better to be equal.

And this typical statement, you have to work twice as hard.

That puts a big burden on a child or teenage or anybody that feels like, Hey, I got to be twice as good to be equal first, um, Speaker 1: Halloween service that I had to preside over because I was responsible for the youth department.

When we came home that evening, my wife and I found a cross burning on our lawn.

So immediately I called my commander.

And when we met with him, one of the things that they, they said, well, you should have asked us where you were going to live.

We could have told you that there were certain areas that would have been more amiable for your presence.

That was kinda interesting.

Um, the other thing is that the commander of the base commander, uh, offered to give me a gun.

He said, if anybody comes after you and you, and you shoot, make sure that they fall inside the house.

Speaker 2: It was a KKK gathering in the neighborhood and the area I considered my same spaces, you know, as, as a kid, you know, my first exposure to seeing people in sheets as a kid, not fully, no full appreciation for what it is, because the area we in, but it was, uh, you know, those things, um, you know, and those things rang true to me, not because of my fear.

Um, but I saw my parents the concern, right?

So as a kid, you see the concern that you, you know, we're concerned, I'm a kid, there's a natural pincer to be worried about things like that, but see your parents, right?

Speaker 1: Your protectives your, Uh, to see the fear and concern, Um, in them, that's something different we're afraid your parents were.

I think so, I think what has happened in America with the COVID-19 the Georgia Florida issue, you don't allow people to be caught off guard everybody's at home.

They're looking at things from a different lens.

They're saying I never knew because I got calls from people after this to say, Paula, you are right.

And I said, yeah, I'm not sick.

I haven't gotten this and no, that's not what I'm calling you about.

Are you all right about this George Florida, Shawn, I'm going, this is the first time, 400 years of people having a knee in my neck.

And you, this is the first time you've ever had.

The Udacity asked me, am I all right?

We were collecting the funds for the Martin Luther King statue.

Um, it took approximately six years for us to raise $23,000, uh, to have the statue erected.

And, uh, we would go out on the street corners and collect donations for people.

And, uh, just out of the blue, you know, we were out on the corners and walked up to a car and asked, would you like to give a donation to the Martin Luther King statue?

And it was, you know, uh, derogatory terms about Dr. Martin Luther King.

And I got the derogatory calls and was sped knowing that having the knowledge that I knew about Dr. Martin Luther King and see how he was treated, you know, it made me feel like, you know, wow.

Um, matrix manager, uh, Dr. Martin Luther King, The white gentleman.

And, uh, it was just him.

I think he may have been selling, he was going through a divorce.

He may have been selling the house.

I'm not sure, but I remember specifically, I walked in, he's like, Hey, listen, you know, here's my gun cabinet.

I carry, let's just Sign.

No problem.

So he took his gun out and he literally put it on the desk.

So let's say the papers are here.

Like maybe three, four inches from the paper he had the gun, it was kind of sitting there.

It wasn't aimed at me, but he had it sitting.

And I remember kind of turned this way and had like a little Texas star on either.

So on the, uh, That was probably four years into business.

So maybe five years in business.

And I, and I had an employee white employee that we had to fire because of, uh, he had, uh, um, violated company policy and I brought him in and I told him, I said, you know, uh, told him what he did.

And I said, you know what?

I have no recourse.

The client knows what you did, and I'm gonna have to let you go, today's your last day.

And I know we'll forget it was a Friday.

And, uh, let him fall on a Friday.

And he said, well, that's the way it is.

So nothing.

I said, you can come back, pick up your belongings tomorrow or Monday, whenever I'll have somebody to meet you here, if you need them tomorrow.

Um, and I was driving home and I got a phone call and cell phone and it was him.

He said, Mr. Foster, I said, Oh, Hey, how are you doing?

Cause I won't say his name.

He said, I was just talking to my wife and she reminded me, you can't fire me.

You're black and I'm white.

And I said, what did you just say?

He said, my wife reminded me that because I'm white and you're black.

You don't have the privilege of firing me and that, and he was, I was waiting for the punchline and he was serious shopping while black.

So I'm a 53 year old man.

And I was having a conversation with my brother and we were just kind of joking, but not joking about what it's like to shop.

So he says, I'm kind of a hands in my pocket, the whole time kind of guy.

And I was like, Oh yeah, yeah, I'm kind of a, keep my hand above my waist.

And you know, at all times I'm 53 years old and that's, and I've always done that because you never want to be profiled or you never want somebody to assume something, say something to you that then creates a situation that's uncomfortable for, for everybody because they perceive you and Certain way I've lost.

Um, I've lost some hope, uh, you know, uh, in, in that, you know, over the course of years where there've been so many instances that have happened where you know, that it's an open shut case and it's like, you're like, wow, like seriously, Speaker 2: We just like moved around from different family members, houses and you know, different shelters.

And it was me and my twin brother growing up.

But we never, uh, that the state that we were in never stopped us from growing, like, you know, mentally having talent and, you know, just developing and doing well in school.

That situation never kept us down.

John Jay had a really good art program, specifically a good art teacher who saw my talent.

And she gave me all the canvases.

I need all of the, she took me to art competitions, which was really good because it wasn't anyone who would just sit down and draw and draw.

And she saw my talent and was like, here's canvas, we're going to go to this competition.

We're going to do all of these things.

And she kind of believed in me, which kind of made me believe in myself.

And then from there I seen that.

Okay, I'm good, but I can also get recognition.

I won competitions and got recognized.

And I was like, this is great.

Coming from where I came from.

No one was doing it.

Mrs. Johnson.

I, as I say, it was a very influential, she was, uh, I just remember her, uh, at a time where I was a great student, did very, very well in classes.

But as most young boys do had a, had a, he had a knack for us staying in trouble.

And I always just remember her always reminded me, um, to not let those things kind of distract me and keep me from achieving what I could do with my potential.

So she was very instrumental in, in reiterating those things to me, keeping me on the right path.

And when I got off that path, um, get me back on in a very constructive and, and, and, um, you know, way that I can understand why, what the correction was Being poised for the insult is necessary.

That builds character, but it also builds preparedness.

And if you're prepared, you're in a much better position to overcome whatever may come your way.

Uh, but we are in a fight, uh, for inclusiveness.

And I would say that while there still, uh, stories that you can point to that are ugly.

Uh, they're just plain, um, sickening.

There's a multitude of stories that would bring you happiness to recognize that while we have not gone to the mountain top, we certainly are moving in the right direction..